Long before Steven Burkhart founded his own creative agency, he had a sense for what he wanted to do. Just one sense — hearing.
He was a live sound guy. But he loves anything that combines the creative and the technical, so he added photography to his toolbox, then to differentiate himself, he added video. And when he realized a lot of small businesses don’t have the visuals they need for quality content, Burkhart Creative Agency was born. At that moment his side hustle turned into a full time job.
Now Steven and his team help small business owners, entrepreneurs and hustlers stand out in a crowded digital space with high-quality content and modern advertising strategy.
Hosted by Dustin Trout
Produced by Andrei Gardiola
Check out the full video episode on Youtube at:
If you liked this podcast, check out more content at https://eic.agency/podcasts/
| Rise Grind Repeat 061 |
0:08 On today's episode of rise grind repeat we talked to Steven from Burkhart creative agency talking about how he took his creative shot from a side hustle to a full time gig. Let's dive right in. 0:21 Stephen thanks so much for joining us on another episode of rise grind repeat this has been what in the works for almost two years yeah, glad that we can finally make it happen especially during a time when there's a bunch of craziness going on and and yeah, not as many people connecting I mean, especially in person so appreciate you coming down. Oh, yeah, I'm super I'm super glad to do it. It's It's definitely been a challenge I'm sure as you've had with your business where it's like you're always like starting a conversation of like, where you guys sit with like meeting like, do you want to do zooms Do you want to meet a person and it's like, some people are like really shy about it. Other people were just like, let's go for it. So it's, it's definitely been an interesting transition and like kind of having almost at 1:00 Like PR aspect to like getting the business kicked off. Yeah. And I mean, one thing that's been fun to watch is, I mean, you kind of want to take the leap of faith and then have been building a team and all that. And before we kind of dive into there would love to just learn more about you what I mean, before this, you mentioned you did wedding videography. But what's kind of what's kind of your story? Where'd you come from? How'd you get into where you're at now? Absolutely. So I'd say, you know, if I if I gotta pick some sort of starting point, I did live sound from a church actually for a number of years and just realized that like, I really enjoyed anything that was like really mixing like creative and technical things together. And so that made me start to check out photography and then ended up deciding to go into video because there was like, so many wedding photographers. And so that was like a real challenge to be like, well, how would I differentiate myself? And so I ended up going down the video route and and when was that shoot that was probably like 2015 or something. And so that was that had like marginal 2:00 Success. Nothing crazy. And the more that I was in the video world, the more I saw, and especially as you know, during that whole time was a transition of like, Instagram really picking up speed. You know, like, all these visual platforms were businesses were trying to go on, like a social platform and market to people. And they had to have visual assets to do that, you know, what I mean? Like Instagram was like, either you had you had a picture you didn't, you know, I mean, like, if you didn't, you didn't post you couldn't, it wasn't like Facebook or Twitter where you could just type something in. And so to be able to actually have like content to market with, I saw growing and only growing more. And so I was like, you know, like, I'd really like to transition help small businesses, like achieve their goals because like for me, and I'm sure for you, it's like, you always had this like dream inside of you that you wanted to make happen. You know what I mean? So I had this goal that I wanted to be to create a life for myself where I was like, in charge of like a group of people and like doing cool work. And at the same time, I was looking at these small business owners and I'm trying to help have the same thing. Have that 3:00 same passion where they want to do something really, really cool with their life and have something to show for themselves and I can be part of the process to help them do that. And that was really exciting to me. And so that's kind of where I decided to jump into doing more business related which was fairly recent to be honest. Yeah, so far it's been really fun. Yeah, and I mean, what was when did you start going more down the business route and what was it like to transition not only from photography to video, but then wedding video over to doing commercials and content for businesses, the jump from photo to video was a challenge to say the least. It was not only you know, just like cost wise, you know, there's so much gear you got to get to do a good job with video. But on top of that, like I was doing it for weddings. And so that was really that that was that was a test because like, you can't mess it up. But I'm also learning something for the first time and I'm like one of those bullheaded guys were like, usually like the smart thing to do would have been to be mentored and like taught and stuff like that. And I'm like, No, like I'm diving in headfirst and that's kind of always how I've been like, I'll go for it. 4:00 If I probably shouldn't, so I, you know, that's kind of how I pursued it. And so that was that was a real tough transition. So there was like some mistakes that happened along the way and eventually got that cleared up. Thankfully, that's, that's far behind me now. But that was definitely a big transition, I was tough. And then the transition really moving to business videos was really at the end of last year, where I really made the conscious conscious choice to be like, you know, I'm going to do small businesses now, and really move in that direction, which is, in some ways, just as intense as weddings, but just in different ways. You know, you don't necessarily have like a moment itself that can like pass you by like a first kiss or like a first dance. But obviously, you have to be respectful people's times and like, like, do a really, really good job, make sure that takes a really good and stuff like that. So there's a different kind of pressure but just as much I think and how much do like analytics and what's the return on investment look like? I mean, do those types of questions come into play? And is that where there's maybe different pressure rather than making sure you capture that first kiss or record 5:00 We've definitely started definitely more heavy on the video production side. So analytics and like SEO and stuff like that is something we're slowly moving into. Because we really just wanted to provide like a complete experience for the customers where like, we could take what we made them and put it to good use. So that way they don't feel like you know, they spent all this money and like now I can't make it back. So but we really have started more like heavy on video production side. And so that's kind of where we started and we're moving in that direction. And so at what point I mean, were you working part time or full time while at time? was it called Burkhart creative agency or kind of what was the transition going from, like turning this into a full time thing? Yeah, so it's been it's first like my wedding was like Nomad productions, and then it was Nomad wedding. And then when I decided to switch it was Burkhart could have agency. It's kind of always exist on its own, but not necessarily given my full attention like it is now. So I mean, when when did that transition happen? I mean, were you working part time so I was working full time and then basically 6:00 Doing like wedding work or video work whenever I could on the side, which is always a challenge. And it's always like really frustrating, you always feel like you're hitting a ceiling where it's like you starting to, you're really starting to decide, you know, sacrificing time with family or friends and stuff like that. And so it's, it's really easy to make the job the enemy, you know, I mean of why you can't succeed. And so I eventually got to a spot where I had enough wedding work where I really needed to go part time to be able to spend the time like editing because that's really what that's like the lengthy part of any video production is the post production. And so I ended up going part time. And then my work just got like in a weird time where they didn't have a bunch of business coming in. And I was like, the only part time guy so I got let go. And so that was kind of like forcing me into producing my dream full time. And so that was it was interesting transition for sure. It was definitely scary. And at that point, I no longer had any excuses as to like how I spent my time or, you know, I mean because at that point, I didn't have 7:00 Like a job that I can make the enemy of why I wasn't spending my time how I wanted to, like I had no excuse. So that was like, kind of cool and exciting and yes, scary. Because it was all I mean, how did you approach that? I mean, very similar story to how I how I got started, I mean, literally got laid off, and it was just like, Alright, well, it's been in my mind, I want to do it, but now it's like, well, I got no other choice. So, I mean, how did you approach that? How did you navigate that? How did you figure out the things you needed to do to start bringing income in? Well, I mean, we're still figuring a lot of that out, you know what I mean? And, but, you know, during the time that I was part time and full time, you know, I've always been a really big reader. And so I've always spent a lot of time like reading like business books about like mindset about like practical stuff like executing, communicating. You know, reading blogs and forums that people have like how they set their business up. And so I had done my as best I can educate myself walking into and obviously there's a big difference between conceptually knowing something and actually like executing on it. And that was really worth 8:00 All that I learned started coming into play, and then just trying to actually walk out what it meant to build a business. I mean, it's it's finding that healthy balance. I mean, you can read as much. I mean, you mentioned you listen to Gary Vee talks about it all the time, you can read about doing push ups all the time, but at the end of the day reading isn't gonna get you stronger. And so finding that that balance of how do you keep educating that continuing education? And then how does that translate into your day to day business decisions and how you're gonna try and grow? So I mean, what, you did this just recently, I mean, turn this into a full time thing. It looks like you have a team of I mean, three others. Yes. So how have you gone from, you know, just starting this less than 12 months ago to having a team? I mean, what was that process? Like? How, how did you make that happen? Honestly, it kind of happened a little bit by accident. And so I just, you know, it's just weird. Like, 8:53 you know, sometimes you try things for a long time and they just don't work out for whatever reason, right? And so for like weddings, I had done that for a long time, and it just didn't 9:00 I always felt like I was kind of hitting a wall with it. And I didn't know what that wall was. And I didn't know why it was there, or what to do to fix it. And then the moment I switched to doing the agency, like everything just started changing. So like, you know, I had people reach out to me that wanted to help out and wanted to build the business, and other people who have recommended to me to help out and so like literally like one person, 9:24 Rylan, who's on my team that does all like all our editing, she had been someone who kind of like started a little bit before I made that official transition. But the other two are ones that like literally reached out and just wanted to help build a business. And so that was really exciting to feel like, there was a little bit of a dream there and like a goal for the future that people could kind of like, get their hands around if that makes sense. Yeah, and be a feel like they're a part of something. And so that was really interesting. It just like it really just like happened. Like I can't even explain it. It just like did and 9:55 so that's been really fun to see and like it's just weird, you know, I mean, like, it's like one of those things you can't quantify Exactly. 10:00 Like why it happened that way, but it did. And that was that was really fun. It's funny. Now there's a lot of a lot of similarities. I mean, it's kind of when I was working full time, I had literally someone working here full time before I made the jump. And it's funny, just listening very, very similar stories. I mean, building a team from zero to where you're at now. I mean, they're, it's, it's tough. I mean, one to run the business to sell to, then everyone needs something to do. So I mean, what's been the biggest struggle trying to figure out how to grow the business while also keeping the team together, aligned and running towards, you know, the same end zone. Yeah, that's definitely been a 10:34 challenge. One of which I've read more books on. 10:38 And so like, but really though, like, like, you know, like, john Maxwell is like a great person to read if you want to, like learn about like leadership and, and all those things and leadership. 10:50 Well, let me back up. I would just say that something even that you mentioned in your past with working at agencies like communication is just like such a big deal and like 11:00 You know, I remember back in the day when I was like first looking for jobs, and they were they were always talking about, like, get a 11:06 Bachelor's in communication. I thought that was like, What does have to do with anything. And then you actually get into a spot where you're like working in an agency level where like, people are actually trying to get like real work done also, and communication becomes like a really big deal. And so I knew communication is going to be something that really was a key and making this work for us. And so just being really, really intentional, like, like, even when we have like our meetings, like I spend quite a bit of time like preparing for them and like understanding like, okay, like, where, like, what am I saying in this meeting to like, give a viewpoint of where we're headed. And so like one of the one of the quotes that I'm like trying to kind of live my like teamwork lifestyle by which I'm sure to butcher 11:51 is, if you want 11:54 if you want people to build a boat, don't teach them how to build a boat. Give them a 12:00 longing for the open see. 12:03 That's, that's really it. Yeah. And so it's just this idea that like if you can give people a tangible vision ahead towards that and empowers people and motivates people to like find a way themselves, not that they're on their own, you know what I mean? But like they that's how you like innovate. That's how you like problem solve is having people on your team that are like trying to make it work, too. So it's the opposite of micromanaging. And that's no one likes to micromanage. And then it's just not fun to micromanage mean, takes so much more time rather than, hey, we're all adults, we all have the same goal. We know what what the objective is and kind of had the the touch bases in those meetings to make sure things are progressing correctly. But I think there's I mean, there's a lot of businesses that prevent growth because you have someone at the top that needs to tell everyone exactly what to do lay it all out, and I need to do this first and then do that. There's no there's no freedom to essentially make mistakes on your own and be like, Oh, well, that didn't work. Maybe we could do it like this. And it's, you're essentially training a solutions Build Team by going 13:00 went down that route on letting people have the freedom and having, at the end of the day, just more freedom in general to think through things. Well, that's really been tough too. And 13:10 you know, I'm pretty hands off. I would say for the most part, I don't know if that's I don't know if everyone else feels that way on my team. But what I've actually found is that 13:20 and one of the things I actually got from Gary Vee is to just treat each person kind of uniquely I guess, and so, like some people really need structure, and other people really don't like structure. 13:31 And so being able to, like have enough hands off, where the people can, like be able to be creative and develop things on their own is really great. But at the same time, I found myself almost erring on the side of like to 13:45 willy nilly, I guess you could say were like, maybe someone didn't have as clear an idea of like, when something was due or when something should be delivered or what needed to be delivered. And so me giving them like room to move around was actually more harmful than helpful. 14:00 Where they needed a little bit more structure to actually feel like they understood what was going on. And so just really finding that balance has been a real challenge for me where it's like, I want to be not a micromanager. Yeah, but I also want to provide enough structure to the people who need it feel like, secure and like the expectations are understood. I mean, how do you how do you go about trying to find that? I mean, do you have a process now to kind of are there certain questions that you asked to help identify those personalities on how you can communicate? Or is it just more trial and error? Yeah, it's a little bit trial and error. 14:31 Some of the people on my team I've known for a while and some of the people I haven't. And I think you're always kind of adjusting, like, you know, when someone comes on a team, 14:40 especially if you didn't know them for like, a long time ahead of time. You know, some people could talk a pretty good game and you want to find out like if that game is real or not, you know what I mean? And you only find that out by finding out kind of like the hard way. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you give them this task, and they if they totally destroy it, then you're like, Okay, well, then you're not quite where I thought you were. 15:00 Or maybe they surprise you and they do a really good job. And it's like, okay, like, you talk some smack and you deliver it. So we're good. Yeah, I mean, but really, it's just sitting down with people, I think an individual individually just like talking through, like, what their needs are, what they like, what they don't like. And just just being observational, like I think as a leader, you just need to be really observational, and just, like, watch people and see, like, you know, people are not really great at hiding their feelings, not you know, for the most part and so like, seeing like, when do they look frustrated? Like when do they look excited? Like, what things do I say they get some like super jazzed about our future and what things kind of like take them down. And this kind of just like building that like, 15:38 kind of like memory bank, I guess, for each person. So that way, you can kind of get an idea, situational awareness. I mean, having EQ I mean, it goes a long way. I mean, hit going back to the communication side, I love this because I agree with you. I think there's nothing more powerful than being a good communicator. And I think that's why I love marketing so much is that's all it is, is you you're setting 16:00 audiences and you're having a conversation and the creative is that conversation and what you're trying to communicate. I think one of the hardest things for, uh, you know, when it comes to new videos is kind of 16:12 what are we going to communicate? I mean, how big is communication? whenever it comes into producing, you know, videos for clients? I mean, how deep Do you go into? Well, who are we targeting? What pain point? I mean, how, how does communication play into the overall video creation process? Well, I mean, I think a lot of it depends on the client. I mean, I can't 16:33 you know, for the most part, I can only work with what I'm given. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so if they don't know who their ideal customer is, that doesn't really help me out a whole lot. If they're not intimately aware of their pain points and their strengths and weaknesses and what makes them different. That's still another challenge that I have to work for work through outside of just like storyboarding a cool video for them. Because now we're starting to like really think through things 17:01 Maybe I shouldn't have to think through it maybe they should be aware of and it just depends on where they are in the gym, their journey as a business owner, if they're just starting out, there's no way that they like fully understand all their values as a company. Those things are kind of like discovered over time. Yeah, I feel and so 17:19 we try. I'm pretty like 17:23 abstract in the way I think of things. So I like to be able to hear like the whole story of what people you know, have done, what they think about what they feel about and then start to try to like build pictures in my head as far as like what that video is going to look like. So that we can start discussing those things and being able to have those questions I definitely like to go through like, hey, like what do you guys really good at? What do you guys different and be able to like start asking those questions to the client so they can even get a chance to think about that because all that's gonna come out to on the script is like when they start like talking about what they're good at, you know, I mean, yeah. And it's sometimes it's hard for people you know what I mean? Like I was saying that like your whole life you grew up in school, trying to like fit in and being 18:00 A small business person, it's like the first time that like, you want to stick out like a sore thumb. So people see you, you know, I mean, so sometimes it's hard for people when they're coming up with scripts and videos to like, kind of brag on themselves a little bit. Because it's not natural. You know, it's not how you're really trained to be unless you're like, really that like personality type. No, and I agree. It's amazing. I mean, whenever you do bring up like, the sorts of questions like yeah, we want to video we want to look really cool, cool. Well, who are you trying to reach? What what pain point you're trying to speak to? And and how what's the solution that we're going to use to solve that pain point to really sell your product or service? It's amazing how I mean, how many businesses don't haven't thought through that at all. So I mean, do you help work through that as well? Or Yeah, we tried we tried to as best we can. We want to be able to, you know, sometimes you can just tell that like, if you go on someone's website or you know, you can start to pick out from you because you're you're you're a little more objection, objective, because you know, you're not in the business like they are. So sometimes having that like third person to be able to look inside the business and be like, okay, I kind of see you guys really hit on these things like 19:00 Like, is this something that you feel really defines you guys and then be like, Oh, yeah, like it really does, you know what I mean? So be able to help walk them through that a little bit, I think is super helpful because, you know, some of those pain points you talked about some of those things are like very subtle things in a video. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, if you think about, like, if you think about it, like a car commercial. And, you know, you see like a handsome guy driving really fast at night. And this is like Lexus or something like that. Like, it doesn't, they don't say in the video, like, drive this car and you'll feel powerful and sexy. You know what I mean? It's, it's subliminally done through like the way that they shoot it. Yeah. And like, the expressions on the guy's face is all very, like subtle. And so sometimes those pain points are important to know because they can kind of you can help slip those into the subtle messages of the video, which I think is part of what makes video interesting and exciting. And I mean, so those subtleties, and I actually think that's what makes a good production video production company is of them being How do they say things on it? 20:00 Certainly, you know what I mean? How can you communicate by being creative? And that's so I think it's called creative. Do you do it through the script? Do you do it through a visual? Do you do it through the entire story of the video? I mean, that's, that's where I mean creators can flex their creative skill. And that's where I mean, the ones that are really good. Think through all that. I mean, most people tend to fall on the script, like, are you this? Are you struggling with that in the script? And it's like, there's so many different ways that you can visually show it, you can tell it to the entire story without opening up with that direct pain point, I think totally well, and I think most people are a lot of people are insecure about those pain points. And so to say them overtly, is like actually really uncomfortable and not really good. And so you know, I mean, like, like, what if you never see like a weight loss commercial be like, Are you feeling fat and ugly every time you go on a date? You know, I mean, like, no one says that, but they'll show people who are like in shape feeling very confident. So that's like the subliminal part where they're saying like, oh, like I don't feel like that. So I want to kind of look like this right? So they don't overtly say the pain point. But because like you know what it is? 21:00 They know what it is, but we're not talking about it. And so I think that's part of it too is like understanding those pain points so that way you can you can talk about them and handle them in a way that like people actually ups except is like really one of those other things about video production that's like really hard to kind of like, get your hands around. Sometimes you guys are definitely communicating a lot. It's the stuff that you're posting love it. I mean, the where you guys are at the table with the team, doing the the post shoot kind of analysis, like what's everyone thinking? on your website? I mean, you have stuff, giving tips on how to think through different content ideas. I mean, that's usually the biggest struggle whenever it's like, hey, yeah, I'd love to do videos, but I don't know what to do. And our biggest thing is trying to create a process that we're doing ongoing content, as well, because I mean, it's nice to have a sweet, sexy video, but there's a ton of value in ongoing stuff. I mean, from an SEO perspective, you have fresh creative. I mean, how do you help businesses come up with those ideas? 22:00 On on the type of content they can produce. Absolutely, I think 22:05 for one, I think that's like a creative muscle that people feel like maybe they should be really good at right away. But that I don't think that's realistic. I think that a lot of times, especially in like non sexy industries, like, like, like the one one example, I always give us like a title loan agency, like there's nothing sexy about that, like 100 page contracts sitting on a desk, you know, I mean, but once you start 22:30 trying to produce content and trying to do those behind the scenes things and helpful things like helpful things for your client, like I think that ends up being being able to open up your mind to the different possibilities of what you can shoot. And I think that has like its own momentum to it, if that makes sense. So we really wanted to be able to give small businesses the tools to be able to like shoot decent video and help educate them on how to do that so that their videos are like good and like not distracting and like something was watchable. So they 23:00 concert, like walking down the road of like, what are we going to talk about? And so that's one of the things that we did in one of our video content things where we talked about like, how to figure out what to talk about. And we I think we gave like a list of different options of like, you know, do behind the scenes, do an educational series, like, talk about your day, show off your desk, like all those things that are like little things, but once you start doing that, I feel like it builds that creative muscle and people to be able to like, realize that there actually is like a lot about your day. That's interesting or cool or like at least gives people a chance to like get to know you better, because people do business with people that they like. And so if they like you and say like oh man, like I love my lattes, foamy too, you know what I mean? Like, but how else are they going to know that unless you show them? I totally agree. I mean, it's, there's so much you can do. I mean, the relationship building i think is the big one with everything getting so digital. I mean, especially right now, or people want to be more distant and everything, the more you can show who you are your personality, it builds up that relationship which that's what gets people over the fence to reach out and say, Yeah, I wanna I want to work with 24:00 Yeah. 24:01 So what is the I mean, one of the biggest benefits of video? I mean, there's more businesses are realizing that Yeah, I should be doing video, but it's always Well, how do I use them? So I mean, what are different ways that you've seen? I mean, whether it's email or social, I mean, why, why and how are businesses using? I mean, video? I mean, I think there's a couple of obvious ones. I suppose that really anyone who did you know, can do a quick Google search and find out which is like the fact that like, the highest amount of engagement, meaning that people actually interacting with the content happens with video. So for a business who's looking to make something you would obviously want to make something that has the biggest return on your investment, even if that is not like financially directly, but like attention or views or likes or shares or something, that the message of what you're doing is getting out there I think is huge. So it's just one of the most effective meeting mediums, assuming you did it well. 24:58 to like, I really do think 25:00 People want to see videos as well. And so which kind of ties in, but it's also a little bit different too, whereas, like, people are really wanting to learn about a business. And so one of the most effective ways that can do that is by video. Which, so to not be there, we have crazy yeah, you know what I mean? And so, and I think that, you know, for, like, the example of like, the title loan place, like, even if they have a video series on like, commonly asked questions is really huge and goes a long way to help. I mean, you know, like, buying a home is like a scary thing for people to do. And it's something that people don't do very often, you know what I mean? So even something where like, you're giving something like a little helpful, you know, FAQ or something like that, while it's not sexy and crazy, is like still super helpful and is totally going to build your business because you gain trust with someone. And so, you know, they say a picture's worth 1000 words. And so they said like a video is worth a million, which I'm not sure if that's true, but I as a creative person, it's so exciting to me to be able to 26:00 have multiple ways to express myself. Right? So you have like, what you shoot you have, how you shoot it you have how it looks when you edit it you have what music you choose, all those things are expressing something. Yeah. And so I think it's exciting because like we talked about earlier with the subtleties. There's more subtleties you can have in that, and all those things, assuming you know, you know who your customer is, yeah, build that, like trust with someone, you know what I mean? Like, if you have like, a hipster brand, but then you have like, country music. Like, that's not going to resonate. Wow, you know what I mean? And so being able to have those things, but if you had, like the the Indy acoustic music, they're going to hear that, and it's going to sound like what they listen to, and they're, they're already going to feel more at home than if they just seen a picture. Yeah, you know, I mean, cuz it's like a part of who they are. So I think that's exciting, too. I think that you can really tailor your content to really, really resonate with people really well with video. What you just said the picture's worth 1000 words videos worth a million. I mean, what 27:00 What I love about it is, I mean, how many times have you gotten a text and someone was super happy, but you read it differently when you thought they're mad. And you can't do that you can't lose context through video because people can hear the emotion people and see the facial expressions. And so I think that's where the whole, it's worth a million words, because outside of just what you're actually saying, I think the emotion and all that and how you can make someone feel it's just so much different. And I mean, now more than ever, people are wanting to connect, and you can connect with someone whenever they're looking at the camera making eye contact, rather than just reading a blog about your services. And I mean, I love the frequently asked questions, because I think that's so powerful. One, it's easy content because they know what questions they are and what answers they get every single day. But then, if you deploy that right and do some SEO optimizations, it's amazing how much Google is having videos ranked on the search engine results page now. I mean, what got us doing more of that is like we started doing some of these podcasts we started noticing, you type in the guests name and our video would show up literally ahead of themselves. 28:00 website and it was like, man, there's so much Google is ranking video so much more now. So it's like, to your point, if you do frequently ask questions you can give information and also that builds that trust, then I mean, based off digital marketing, you can retarget people that saw that and then show the wow commercials and show that you're a good legitimate brand and stuff like that. And I think there's just so many different ways that you can use video from both marketing to sales to education that all lead to business. I mean, another thing that I love that you said is like, even though it's not sexy to you, it might be to someone else. And I mean, most people can agree. What you do isn't isn't sexy to you, but from an outsider looking in, it's interesting to them and something as simple as how to storyboard just going through that process. Whenever I mean, especially whenever you send like an estimate or whatever, if that's a line item, if you're like, Whoa, that's a lot of money, but if you have a video and they've seen the whole process and the pre production, what goes into it, they'll appreciate one the cost and to the the end result because 29:00 They see the behind the scenes and know what goes into it. Well, I think Yeah, absolutely. And I think what you're talking about with 29:07 people kind of like getting to know you with the video, I think is so huge because you're right, like, how do you how do you find out someone's like tone, how they sound how, 29:17 you know, sympathetic or helpful they sound, you know, you can't do that with text per se, or at least not as well. And so, I think people wildly underestimate how much people shop online before they make a phone call. And to be able to have as especially, I mean, if you're actually a genuine person, and you actually care, like you'd be crazy not to, like really put that out there for people to really connect to because people are literally going to watch that video before they make a phone call. And I just don't think most people realize that like people really do shop a lot. I mean, like you should, you should see how many Amazon reviews I read before I buy a camera or a piece of gear like I am very curious about something before I go 30:00 And actually purchase. And so I don't think it's any different. And especially since you and I are in service businesses like, we're like, they're gonna be interacting with us a lot. And so like who we are matters a lot like when I shot weddings like I'm spending the whole day up in the bride's face, like, all day long, if I'm like a tool bag, like that's gonna be a long wedding for her, you know what I mean? And it's not gonna be a good experience. And so being able to show off your personality, I think is super huge, because, like I said, I just don't think people realize how many people are shopping ahead before they pull the trigger on something and to be able to actually present yourself Well, I think it's huge. I mean, that's what drives me crazy. It's so many brands are out there advertising like buy for me buy from this and none of the creative is educational and telling people why to buy when I mean everyone can agree. Yeah, I look at Amazon reviews all the time. I do so much research. It's like, man, if you just actually educated a bit more and use that as the creator for the ads, and then figured out how to you know, bring them down to the sales part. It's amazing how many more sales happen what the return on investment looks like. I mean, it's it's amazing when you start folding 31:00 In this educational, but it's people just feel like Well, I'm not saying buy it, I'm not being, you know promotional, so I feel like people are gonna buy for me. I mean, do you ever deal with that type of scenario where you're pushing for more education? But well, how is that gonna sell more product? You know what I mean? I'm not with clients yet. But I know that's something I definitely struggle with myself. And, and thankfully, we've, we've began exploring that a little bit with just even writing some of the blog content for the website where it's like, like, it's people have to understand, like, content marketing isn't like really sales, you know, I mean, is driving towards a sale, but it's not an ad, you know, what I mean, is supposed to be helpful. You know what I mean? And I think that, you know, if there's anything that people can take away from, like, video stuff in general, is it like, it's intended to be helpful to the end user? 31:52 And a story? Yeah, right. Like, and so if it's not helpful for them, like don't even bother making it. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so like, wow, 32:00 You know, creating a video for an ad is like the most effective way to do it. And obviously, that's helpful because they're buying your services and you're making your services because you think they're helpful. Like, that whole line of content that happens before then is super huge to be able to, like, create that funnel. Yeah, where people can, you know, build that trust and eventually, when they come time to having a buying decision to be at a PICU. And yes, of course, like, I don't know, for me, I always look at it, like a relationship, like, to me like business and like fit like human human relationships are like, almost completely identical. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I, you know, I wouldn't ask to borrow your car to go drive somewhere. Because you don't know me, like, I could be a terrible driver. I could be a bad human and just steal your car. Like you don't know. You know, I mean, because we don't have that report. Right. So there's like, some things we can't ask of each other because we don't know each other that well, someone I do know, I could go stay at their house overnight. You know what I mean? Like because we have a different level of rapport. And so I think that when people look at businesses being different than that, I think that's when they start running into trouble. And so like a business 33:00 So you have a relationship with a customer. And so when you have that video content or any sort of content marketing that goes into it on the head and ahead of time, you're building that relationship with them. So that when you do ask for something, there's something there. There's like something tangible, even if it's only up here, you know, I mean, it's hard. I mean, most businesses find it hard because it's a lot of thinking through it's like, how can I produce content, it's not selling to get someone excited to then do that end result. I think a great example of that a Kimber, who who brought it up, but they talked about, there's a tire company, it was like back in the 30s or 40s, or something like that where it's like Firestone they people weren't buying them fast enough. So they they came up with a campaign where they would target people in this city, but talk about things to do like 30 miles away that then entice them to drive there. So now there's there's more wear and tear on the tires. So in turn, by doing that, people were driving more and they got people to buy more tires. And so it's like, are you sure that's not Michelin stars and my I don't know what it was. It is because I literally listened. 34:00 To a podcast about like, like the other day that the Michelin star rating was like literally a wild idea that someone had because they figured if they could tell someone This is a good restaurant they drove there was more wear and tear on the tire. Exactly that that is the entire premise of it. And so their whole messaging their whole ideation, everything, there was nothing about buying new tires from us, it was get excited and do this, knowing your target audience. So they like to do get them excited, then they start driving more they use the product and now in turn, they end up buying quicker and so like that's a genius way to content market, but to reverse engineer that where it's like, Alright, well, how do we get them to use it? Well, in order for them to use, they got to drive more in order to get people to drive more. I mean, it's a lot of reverse engineering and thinking through which I mean, it's it's tough. That's so cool. You brought that up because that podcast I was listening to that was one and then the other one was the the Guinness Book of World Records were like is actually made by the beer company Guinness because they wanted. I think the story was that they had gone out shoot the people who started getting a gun out shooting 35:00 And someone shot it and they were like, Oh, that's like the biggest use ever. And they're like, No, it's not. And so they like wanted to find out what the biggest use was right? There's someone like shot or something. And so they decided like, okay, like this is like conversations and random, but questions that people ask themselves in a bar over a beer. Yeah. And the fact beer could be Guinness, well, that'd be good for them. So like, people don't really think of Michelin stars being Michelin tire company, or Guinness Book of Records being like Guinness, the beer company, but it totally fits. Like when you think about it, you're like, Okay, that's actually like really smart. But you're right, it's like so like down the line, that I think most people would actually just be too scared to do it, because it doesn't translate into dollars fast enough. And I think that's actually like, in a lot of ways. What really kills people, when they start doing marketing in general is like, I really do think most people look at it as like a quick fix or like a quick buck. And it's just it's just not like video production. While it's great and wonderful and amazing. Like is only one part of the whole marketing picture. SEO is only one 36:00 Part of the whole marketing picture. And when you put a ton of weight, like if you, if you think that Facebook ads is like the greatest thing ever happened, you dump all your money into it like, I'm sorry, but like, that's only going to do so well. You know, I mean, because you're trying to make it do something that was never really intended to do. Like it's only a part of the whole plan, you know? And so yeah, to your point, it's like, people have to think long term about some of these things like the monies eventually come like when you posted that picture of your SEO paying off. It didn't for a long time. You don't I mean, but now that it does well shoot now that's worth it. So people don't necessarily think about a year ahead of time. Exactly. But and that that's the short term thing versus long term thinking. I always love that discussion, because it's like, not only do the next I'm not gonna see results tomorrow, but it's like, well, you'll start seeing 90 days and all sudden there. It's like compounding interest and it just, it's like a snowball effect and it just keeps growing and growing. But you'll never get there unless you do it. Well if you make a helpful video that lives on line forever. A great, great blog post post is actually helpful. That's like, you know, evergreen content that's gonna live on forever. I mean, I'm sure you 37:00 Need to freshen things up every once in a while, but I mean, like, you know, just go back to the example of the title loan company like, you know, you're only going to have customers so many times you don't really need to freshen up content that much. Unless, like what you shot looks really dated, which is the video production problem. But, you know, I mean, so like, those things do last, like, if you write blog posts, yes, maybe yes, it sucks to pay for something that maybe doesn't work for six months, but then it will for like, a long time. It's worth it in so many conversations were out the gate, it's like, Hey, we should be doing this SEO and as long term says, like, no, it's gonna take six months, we get six months down the road, and it's like, hey, all these keywords that if we would have started here, we wouldn't be having a bid on them because our rankings would have come up and and it's just it amazes me the decisions that are made. It's just the long tail versus short tail. It's It's fun to watch those conversations and the thinking through it and kind of just how people approach that. I mean, it's it's amazing how, how different everyone is in that sense. Oh, yeah. And an SEO is like another great example of like trying to do something. It was never meant to do like when people 38:00 Like, if I'm not mistaken, organic search still wildly outranks paid search? Oh, yeah, like by a lot, not certainly there's nothing wrong with doing paid search, and it is super helpful. And there is definitely strategies with it. But like, you're right, like having spent the time building up those keywords would have paid off way more than like trying to dump a bunch of money in to try to get like leads in three months. Yeah, you know, I mean, you'd have spent the same amount of money and did like some, like, actual written copy, you'd be much further along. Yep. And to your point, it's, it's, instead of dumping all your time and energy in producing blogs and doing SEO and not doing any paid, as opposed to doing at all it's finding a healthy mix, where it's like, hey, maybe we're on page eight right now, it's been on those terms. But let's spend some time focusing on how we can improve those once they get to page two or one let's stop spending and find somewhere else. And it's an evolving strategy that never never ends. And that's where it's like, a lot of businesses like Alright, well, how long is it gonna take? It's like, well, it's how long is your business going to be around? I mean, you know what I mean? What it's like, it's like you just said 39:00 Like it's always changing, like the strategy does never end. Yeah, because there's always something new Google's gonna come out new algorithm, and you're gonna have to figure out how that works. You know, I mean, like, even like some of the stuff that I've been learning as I've been journeying through learning SEO is like, going from like topical or keyword research to topical research and like how that completely changes the structure of a website even and the linkage inside of it to make sure you have like, topical relevance. relevance, yeah, is completely different than SEO was like, probably, like five years ago. And so it's like, it's always changing. And I think that's, 39:34 I think that's probably another reason why it's so good for business to hire someone like us, because it's like, it is always changing. So like, yes, you could like, take time, step away from your business and learn all this stuff. But it could totally change in like two years, and you have to sit down, learn it all over again, but we're learning it all the time because we have to. So it's like, I don't mean that people do i mean hire agencies and stuff like that. I mean, they just have an understanding of opportunity cost. It's like hey, I 40:00 could learn it and he could but then it's going to take from over here and this didn't take you two years or a year. And it's it's it's understanding the value of your time and knowing that you could do it, but it's actually cheaper to bring someone else in because you're not taking ROI driving time away from something else. And so it's again, just time management. That's also another another fun thing to Well, people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, with everything going on with COVID I mean, how a lot of businesses have been innovating. A lot of business had been doing quite a bit. I mean, how have you guys kind of fared through it? How are your clients kind of navigating? I mean, what is what is that just whole thing Ben like, has definitely been different. So we shot 40:43 we shot a client video, like like a big landing page video probably a month ago. And for some people, that was like, way too soon. 40:54 For them, they were fine with it. And on top of that, they actually had their business affected very little 41:00 At least that's what they told us that they had their business affected very little for kovan. So it's been interesting to see like, what industry is this affecting? 41:09 And you know, we've we've had to do a couple like, sorry, one zoom interview, which was fine. And I didn't, I don't know, it was it was a great interview, and I'm not bagging the interview. It was just not as fun. But this is way more fun. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so but, you know, not everyone's comfortable with that. And so, like I was mentioning before, like, it's just been interesting. As a business. 41:30 You know, the first question is, no longer do you want to meet? It's like, yeah, like, when do you want to me it's like, do you want to meet? Do you want to meet online? Do you want to meet in person? You know, do we do we want to shake hands? Like, I don't know, I'm like, I'm just like I was, I was taught to shake hands. And so like, when I come in, I'm like, I'm going all in for it. I'm like, ready to shake a hand. And then people like, you know, give you like an elbow and I don't even know if there's really a physical difference. How sick one can get with an elbow as opposed to a hand but it's just been interesting. You know, I mean, to like, go through that. 42:00 transition. And like you said, there's really like a Pr Pr aspect to it anyways, because people are so emotionally charged right now that like, if you walk in, you try to shake someone's hand or like, you know, talk about something like it could really it could, that could be the end of sale. And so that's been really interesting and challenging. Because that's like something like my wife's good at, and that's something that I'm really good at. So it's been cool. You know, that's been one of the good things about a marriage. She said, some of her EQ rubs on me. But assessment as it's been a challenge for sure, yeah. 42:32 And just even to like bridging that balance between being helpful for small businesses that are coming up, and so realizing that my time has worth and has value and what I'm doing has value. Because obviously, I want to help people, you know, I mean, there's a lot of small businesses that are struggling and could use my help a lot. 42:49 But that doesn't mean the value what I do is any less Yeah, in fact, it almost makes it higher in value. So it's been interesting to be able to like help out where we can. We've there's definitely some projects that 43:00 We volunteered to help out with in some that we've decided not to, and kind of a case by case basis. So that's been kind of interesting as we go through this, like, kind of maybe not really post COVID time to be able to figure out that dynamic. This is the dynamics have been interesting to deal with, I'd say. But a lot of people are really hurting. And a lot of people really struggling and other businesses are totally fine. So she's been kind of figuring it out with us people sit with that. Yeah, there's been some that have just literally accelerated and have blown up since since all this has happened. I mean, you mentioned your wife kind of has rubbed off on you on some of the stuff of the key, I mean, going from, you know, this being side thing to your full time thing to go and within a couple months having, you know, a team of four, I mean, it takes a lot of time and thinking how have you kind of balanced that work life. I mean, it's it's a lot of juggling, I know on my end, but I mean, how have you kind of 43:53 you know, dealt with that. As a new business owner. I haven't had to make too many really crazy choices. 44:00 cases, which has been nice. That probably won't last forever. But thankfully, I I married someone who works very hard. And so I don't have to like, 44:12 explain that I have a lot to do to her. She gets it. In fact, 44:18 it's, it's likely that she's not working means sometimes you know what I mean? And so thankfully, I don't really have to worry about dynamic. But I think for me, just like anyone with any business really is just being able to like create boundaries for your time. And so like Saturdays, I do nothing. Like if I cook a meal, that'd be like really wild. No, not Saturday, Sunday, excuse me, Sunday is my my rest day. And so, you know, like, I really tried to do nothing at all those during those days. I like to try to have my day like end at five if at all possible unless I forgotten to like email someone or call someone or whatever else. Just be it's nice to have those like nice boundaries and because I think one thing 44:59 that I really 45:00 I'm sure you've realized too is that there's like, there's time spent on things that are truly impactful for your business. And then there's sometimes like busy work you get caught up in doing. And so I find out if I've made a really solid to do list, and that to do list is based on really solid things that build my business, then I can usually get that done before just fine. And I can feel good about it, I got a lot of stuff done. And I try to cut out as much as that fluff as possible to be able to, like provide that like protection time or like my evenings or mine. because realistically, like I could work all the time, but then I think my quality of work would drop too. And I end up doing a bunch of busy work that doesn't help anyone out time management. It's huge. I mean, you mentioned you've done you 45:44 listened to or consumed a lot of educational stuff. I mean, what's been the biggest thing that you kind of learned or what's the piece that kind of stood out the most that's helped you as you're growing your business. I think there's two things been immediately helpful especially in having a team and 46:00 Another Gary Vaynerchuk thing. So hats off to him again. But one of the things that I thought was really interesting that he had mentioned kind of in passing, I think, during one of the daily V's was that everyone has a different motivation when they do their work, and so, for some people as financial for some people, it's freedom, like, that's mine, like for me, like my freedom is really important to me. For some people, it's what they work on, like, they really need what they do to matter a lot. So just treating everyone individually, I guess, you know what I mean? Like, what a concept. But basically, just being able to know that like this, throwing money at people isn't actually like how you can make the people you work for happy. Some people really want that, you know, you can throw money at me all you want, I'll be fine. You know, I mean, but other people, it's like, if they're not doing the work that they want to do, like they won't be happy no matter how much money you throw at them. And so just really treating people on an individual basis that way. So that way 47:00 You keep your team motivated, and you keep them like happy, like, I want my team to be happy, like, I want them to feel good about the work that they do. And it's, you know, like, kind of selfishly, like, I don't want to throw a bunch of money at people that I don't have to, if like, it's actually more beneficial for me to just make sure that they're on really cool projects. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, why would I overspend if that's actually not gonna make them happy? Like, I want to pay them well, but if that's not what makes them happy, who cares? You know, I mean, like, I'm just wasting money. Or I could spend it on cool trips or like cool activities for the group. You know what I mean? Like that money can be used other places. So that's really been one thing that's really stuck out to me. I think the other thing too, is kind of what I mentioned before with like, how I build my to do list. One of the podcasts I listened to was like the mF CEO podcast, with Andy Priscilla. He owns first farm, a couple other businesses. And his thing was just about, like, this is kind of tied in, I guess, to like the 8020 rule, we're like 20% of the things that you work on produce 80% of your results, and so 48:00 Just really being honest with yourself and saying like, like, when I would do my to do list every day, it's like, okay, like, does this have a big impact on my business? Like how big? You know what I mean? Like, do I need to update my website? Or do I need to make this phone call, which one's gonna have the biggest impact on my business and then ordering my to do list that way. So that way, you know, if I have five, six items I need to knock off like, their actual real, like business changing things. They're not just like something to fill my time. 48:28 Because there's always something good that can be done. And so you don't want to fill it with a bunch of random crap. The biggest thing I'm working on is going from working in the business to working on it. So yeah, that's that's definitely a huge, huge goal for us. I mean, speaking of goals, we kind of wrap up. I mean, you're, you're on a awesome trajectory. What does the next three to six months look like? What are you guys working on? And what are some of the goals that you guys have set that you're looking to accomplish? You know, for us, one of the things that we really set out to define ourselves with like, was like a visual style and how we work. We definitely wanted to kind of go like tomorrow. 49:00 edge route, do you like a little more like creative, creative content, if you will. And so, you know, I didn't want to be stuck like shooting doctors offices for like the next 10 years, which would pay really well probably pay better than, than all the other things I want to do, to be honest, but that's not the work we wanted to do. And so we decided as a group that we would spend our downtime, you know, non client working time, building up a portfolio 49:29 of work in the industries that we felt like would benefit from that kind of work. So when you know, whether it was coffee shops or breweries or motorcyclists or you know, auto shops and things of that nature with like having like something kind of like edgy and wild and crazy that has little rock music or like little black and white action, like stuff like that was something up our alley. And so we wanted to be intentional about getting ourselves in those industries, not only for that, but we wanted to be educated on those industries and we had to come from 50:00 With a guy who owns a brewery here in Phoenix, and he was talking about how, like, people will be coming in trying to offer suggestions for him, and just didn't really have any real concept of where he was at as a business owner, like they were giving him like these fat proposals. They were just like, 10s of thousands of dollars. And he's like, dude, I just started my business. Like, I don't have $50,000 to spend on a marketing plan. Like, where's this coming from? You know what I mean? And, and so one of the things he really loved about the video that we made for him was he's like this, this like, this talks about this place like this, this accurately describes and feels like something that would be from this place. And I think that's the biggest compliment. And the thing that we want to do is like, what is the best way we can serve a certain industry like what like understanding those pain points understanding like, what they struggle with, what they're good at what they need help with, because I want to be able to do as good a job as possible. And so I don't want to go in there and just be like good at setting up the camera. I want to be good at like, telling someone's story. And you can only really do that if you really understand the industry. 51:00 So we just want to be intentional. So next couple months for us is just building out the portfolio building up that knowledge base with different industries so we can just do a really, really good job of serving them and being able to have like a body