It’s not what’s on the outside that matters. Until it is. Phillip knows how to improve your branding. | Rise Grind Repeat 046


Here’s the truth: Your brand isn’t really yours. It’s created in the minds of others. It’s how they perceive you; how you appear to them.

So if you are wondering how to improve your branding, you have to improve that appearance. And who better to help you think differently about your appearance than a stylist? Phillip Robert Holmes puts a stylist’s spin on using digital marketing to influence your brand.

Because it’s not just about who you are — it’s about who they see when they look at you.
Rise Grind Repeat Podcast
powered by EIC Agency
Hosted by Dustin Trout
Produced by Andrei Gardiola
Check out the full video episode on Youtube at:

For more information visit our website at We are also on
Instagram @EveryImpressionCounts

how to improve your brand phillip robert morris

| Rise Grind Repeat 046 |

00:45 Go ahead and start this podcast off with love just for you to introduce yourself to the audience. Who are you and. What do you do on a day to day basis.

00:54 I bomb. So my name is Philip Robert Holmes. Who am I. I always like to say that I’m a creator at the core of who I am. I really enjoy storytelling creating things that are beautiful that drives people who want to inspire them or want them to connect with something or in my background it being styling really just inspire them to kind of communicate nonverbally about themselves how they’re feeling or convey a certain look do in my free time. I do a little bit of content creation. So I’ve been doing like influencer platform design silence this agency agency I should say to Cooney I kind of allowed me to kind of partnering with other brands like Gillette Forever 21 means Daniel Wellington.

01:36 So I’ve been kind of yeah. And doing that which has been really nice. As a freelancer so it’s been bringing in some extra income which has been really cool because I’m actually kind of controlling the creative process again and just you know checking back in there make sure I’m hitting the brief in like whatever those tenets of their objectives are you’re trying to achieve besides that telling them boo traveling here in there and the gym. That’s pretty much like my day to day.

02:00 So when it comes to the storytelling how I guess. What does that whole process look like. July. They come to you. I mean how do you ask questions first and what are their goals or do they come to you and say we’re trying to reach this audience or can’t I.

02:13 Yeah. It all depends.

02:14 Like for such huge brands like Gillette like though they’re pretty like locked in step but they know who their target audience is how to do segmentation talking at multiple different types of guys across different age groups and so they’ll come with you with they’re pretty kind of lock and step brief and they’re just like hey this is who we are. This is our objective of what we want to achieve when we see how you’re gonna help us fulfill that need. And so it’s more of like these are all the parts we’re gonna give you a little bit of creative freedom to kind of create within those parameters. You just go run with it and touch base with me as you go and we’ll prove it and go from there. Most recently I just signed up for the venture with cardiology I know if you’re familiar with them.

02:52 So it’s like a skin care based brand they’re based out of like L.A. and they’re really really dope and gain a lot of popular I think that like overnight I think 200 or maybe 500 k now they’re the followers I’ve been around probably about a year and a half and their whole platform is on just like different types of skin chemicals and different products that are possibly like you know non gmo super healthy great price point and really good for different tones of skin. And so for them like their whole social media platform it is so I draw an unedited. They don’t have like really a locked in step by who their target customers. So why’d they literally like hey we’re going to give you a product and give you X amount of dollars you just go and create and be you.

03:31 And it’s super fun.

03:33 I like that are overwhelming but the only problem with that is like you for me as a creative I’m like OK I’m gonna do this I’m a go do it outside we’re gonna be doing backflips and impugn my skin care that I’ll be running and so you put so many concepts are so many.

03:45 You know you get you go outside the box and then you still bring it back like Oh well you know we’re not quite sure we think that maybe should we let it in just a little bit to get a little bit of parameters and also just get really clear on who their target customer is because anything as a stylist and working back like Banana Republic. My job was to store retail and to paint a picture that you know the average job you know are Jane or whoever it was that they want to register with the brand or connect with it. So yeah you have to understand where they’re coming from what’s their background what’s they’re you know discretionary income. What I do for a living like you have to be able to really penetrate them and be able to connect with them but also inspire them and keep dangling that carrot.

04:26 So I need like those inside like the god. Yeah. And so how does how would I guess how that changes direction whether someone was 50 k household income as opposed to 250 K like well what are the types of things that you’d pepper into the storytelling is it the actual script or what’s being said or the actor it’s about a little bit of all of that.

04:46 I think you think about like you know why brands like eggs are 18 and why they’re doing so well. I mean a they’re fulfilling a need for people like you don’t have a tons of discretionary income and there’s a look and feel they’re trying to achieve you like so from a fashion perspective you have people who like love Gucci or love product and nobody can afford that. So the thing with fast fashion is also solving for is that they’re giving you stuff that’s fast or taking you know for season like fashion cycle which is like you know four major collections they make it into fifty six weeks now. So there are everything and two weeks are producing that new fashion range and it’s entry level price points like 20 dollars up to like 200 bucks right. So if you’re making fifty thousand dollars a year and you’re just fresh out of college and you’re in a fashion you like why can’t afford Prada what I can go to Sara I can look just as good. So in your story narrative you might get like you know a hot motto Who is like dripped up and like this faux like Chanel and you like oh well she looks like you know Christian are you OK.

05:43 Jenner only it’s been a hundred dollars and of it. All I could do that do you feel me. So there’s like you. How do you tap into that mindset. How do you tap into that. You know that that customer. So what that cycle. Yeah.

05:56 How they’re thinking and what they want to project and how they want to get there but they may be economically challenged or they may be there’s different parameters. But you had to be able to kind of wrap that up and put a wrapper on it and spit it back to them.

06:09 And so do you go about I mean if song uses the free creative freedom like that is it. We need to do a Web site. We need to do banner ads or videos or kind of do you give direction on that as well. Yeah.

06:21 So I mean my biggest pivot now like leaving out of like being in corporate retail as being working in the cannabis industry. Yeah.

06:30 And so it’s like you know they call that that green gold because it’s just such an untapped market in terms of from a marketing perspective like it’s a lot of smaller mom and pops have been doing it up in Northern California. We have amazing product but inside the legalization of it there’s been a lot of different parameters around how and what you do and how you actually like register your product communicate it and so like marketing for them is so new. Yeah. And so I’ve done a lot of work on your preview are know about big ideas exotics so he’s huge cannabis guy has like a payroll is signed with some of the biggest guys like in actual cannabis community done some work with him also a Cana line and Moon Flower now and really just getting them really clear and again he was a type of customer. How are you engaging them. How do you storytelling How do you create compelling content that speaks to your brand narrative to keep them plugged in because there’s so many different brands popping up left and right like from like you know the female female centric brands are from like you know just all about wellness brands like there has to be a narrative and in order for you to kind of really register with your customer otherwise you’ll get lost in the weeds.

07:42 Exactly. Yeah that was good. Yeah.

07:48 So where do you want to take all this. What are you What are some of your goals.

07:52 I mean that’s a good question. I love like meeting you because I think what you’ve done in your background. I’m very similar in terms of yours more so from Mike. You know Ezio like you know analytics and Web site development and brand narrative and stuff like that. Mine’s from a fashion angle I think my biggest goal is to start an agency you know or create a network of like minded individuals and be able to like you know collaborate on projects and just keep scaling that and hopefully the dream just be able to work for myself like full time and just have like a collective of just like a squad you know like cool like this is what I’m working and I need somebody to do like you know website development like cool why can’t we all e in like bring something to the table and in grows.

08:36 Yeah like a marketing agency or a fashion agent.

08:39 So I think it’s a little bit of both I think because I think I’m so multifaceted I think my background really is heavily like fashion in terms of like brand aesthetic styling look and feel across like omni channel experience. I think that has a huge part of the fold. Another aspect of that is like visual merchandising and then also just like that all over like brand identity getting really clear on who we are how we talk to our customer and what’s the look and feel and then building a team creatively to actually execute on that. So I think my creative director art director like photographer you know all that good stuff.

09:13 Yes awesome. So I mean you mentioned you’ve ordered two big brands. Do you like or do you have experience working with maybe brands that don’t know their identity and need help defining that. Or is that a bit of a challenge.

09:25 It is a bit of a challenge I think it’s interesting because when I first started off I can say I’m big my first big big boy job which was was a banana republic and I was like in two thousand and 14 and Banana Republic had so much success they’re huge you know they’re owned by Gap like multi billion dollar company right. And so they had a lot of when they had a huge fine tell. But during that time they were I was like a swinging pendulum because they had people like the 18 Amazons are who are coming and offering such a diverse product assortment that they were losing a lot of customers and so in that time when they were kind of spinning their like cool not cool but they’re like We don’t know exactly who our core customer is anymore like it used to be this guy and this girl and they had you know this amount of income and they came to us for a festival like luxury goods but now they want like fast fashion they want more fashion pieces they want this but they also want like an expensive leather jacket.

10:20 So they were spinning a little bit and they were trying to capitalize and trying to you know maintain their their their footage you know grounding I should say in the Marcus base but they’re losing a lot of it from these up and coming brand. So when they brought me in it was more so working with a design team like cool like how do we do all of that. How do we do all of that. Like how do you tell a fashion story still be accessible luxury goods.

10:42 But they also have basics in their and then have everything from Mike you know from aid is the honor to these brand filter. So it makes sense. So we’re not like oh Navy you know how did you approach that.

10:54 So I mean that that’s a lot of work is huge a lot of work.

10:57 I mean of course there was a huge team to do that too and for me just as a stylus I was just as good as the information I had.

11:02 So with a lot of analytics understanding why why why why did why does she want to come here why she chooses to come here why is she only buying you know three times a year like you know it because it changes season she’s looking for certain you know pieces to work back with this then if it is the problem or that is how she’s shopping how do we solve for that. Is it that you know you’re showing her how to wear a jacket three different ways. Are you showing her how that she needs to update this every single season so you start to understand the science behind it and this artist storyteller around that.

11:34 So would it be you’d have an idea of bringing to the table are these three different ideas. It gets to market and then did you kind of optimize or change the story or whatever it may be based off the analytics that came in. Yeah.

11:45 Is that based off of purchase data or is data click through rates like you know how long the person has been on the site or a click through an email and exactly purchase is the biggest thing and so like we were sometimes we would buy things with you know like open a buy. And so instead of putting like 50000 units behind like one jacket they’ll probably do like 20000 thousand units but then they’ll have a huge open like to buy. So

12:08 there they sent out the email and the customer like I want this I want this then they go into more money behind it. So it was really really close to the wire like reading analytics and making sure like this stuff is regifting before we go and cut the cloth and make it and put millions of dollars behind it. So it was just a pivot. Yeah. And I think it’s different because you have like again I keep saying brands like Zaw and H NEM is it’s like they’re all vertically integrated so they produce everything in house so they own their factories they own the mail. Yeah. So all that stuff for them like they can produce things really really fast with a with a low low average retail price for it.

12:44 So like two dollars to reduce it and then sell it for thirty five dollars. We’re like different brands like bear box they everything outsource. So you have to plan three six months ahead of time like hey I’m going to design a white T-shirt I’m gonna produce it. So it comes out next year you know save me like I don’t know thirty thousand samples for that. So that’s a huge amount of money right there. Right. So it’s like a pivot. So it’s a lot of it’s very analytical driven now.

13:11 Was that tough to kind of navigate with it. I mean it seems like so those other brands it’s one the it’s cheaper to produce some margin a little bit bigger but it sounds like they could pivot very very quickly and so was that a struggle at times for the older pretty for the company it was a difference because you do you have a company that’s built on a certain infrastructure that support it that way.

13:32 So many of the bigger you are the harder it is for you to kind of turn the ship. So as a lot of like growing pains and a lot of learnings do it but I think they finally start to get it right on and I can say it’s also working there you always like there was always some type of pivot like oh hey we’re fine. Yeah we thought she liked this a month ago but she adds. Now why do you change it. And then also you see now companies who have built a model which is very similar to a fast fashion model. I’m sorry if I’m speaking French to you.

13:57 Oh. So like Gumby is like forever 21.

14:02 They did too much of that they bought they bought so much in their assortment where they like they lost our customers so now they’re filing for Chapter 11 because they bought so much crap you know they open up the aperture too much. They were bringing in too much stuff and so the customer is just like wait Who are you guys like why am I here. Like is this not like stories anymore. It doesn’t make any sense and it doesn’t serve me for what I want. I don’t feel like it’s genuine and I don’t feel like it’s authentic. A lot I like you know millennials and young that target age and talk about brands being authentic. Oh I I can you know that those like me versus now it’s just like everything in the kitchen sink it is just like too much it makes sense and is that something that you really try to achieve is the.

14:41 It feels like me type of thing it’s in that relationship.

14:45 It’s just it’s funny I relate everything back to styling right because like when I’m working with it like so for instance I recently just signed with Netflix right. And so I have heard of it.

14:54 Yeah.

14:56 So glow have you heard of that show. It’s a women’s wrestling show huh. OK. So anyways my example is I just recently signed with Netflix I have an actress called Key a Steven’s right super dope or a background the wrestler for me as a stylist. I have to connect with her like hey who are you. What are you trying to portray. What do you want to be perceived as so I can’t do you know one size fits all for her. You know like it’s not like that it’s not like generally Catholic in action with her understanding who she is and how she wants to be perceived. So I can you know create a solve for that. So stylistically it’s always my approach. I want to have a new clients the same thing. It’s like Who are you who you think you are and then what is the analytic saying and what you know what do you want to be perceived as how do we create a kind of to deliver on that.

15:45 Those are the two different prongs I guess to it is. Like who are you and what do you want to be. Or is it on the other end. Who is it that you want to reach. Or.

15:55 Is there one way. Yeah. I think it’s a little bit of all of that. It’s just how you decide. Dice up you know on the pie or slice it up I think sometimes a lot of it’s just like Who are you. Who are your current customers think you are. And if that’s who you want to achieve. How do you continue to beat that and now if you have that you’re clear on that. And then your stretch goal is to reach on no infants.

16:15 Now seriously cool.

16:18 How do we build a plan that allows you to be so T.A. get to that creatively I do the segmentation that you don’t alienate one part but also be able to speak to you know the infants over here.

16:30 How would you be able to. How would you approach that. Would it. I mean to me it would be reaching the parents that would then make it harder.

16:38 Exactly right. So then you would figure out the overarching as a brand like Who are we. Right. Like what is our what is our look and feel how do we talk to our customers and then from there you get that baked anesthetic and it’s just like how do you divvy up our diversity diet enough so it feels like the same brand but you’re talking to a different age group. Dexter I mean now what that would be tough because I mean it’s it’s.

17:00 That age group or whatever the demographic it’s almost like you’re trying to serve them two different messages if you try and plant that seed into the infants and it’s totally and so it’s like that’s why when you come in it’s just like how do we do that and how do we segment it right.

17:14 How do you keep it one brand but then how do you really speak to these particular groups via email or via social media or connecting to them how do they actually engage with the brand. And then if we figure out what they actually engage the brand that’s what bizarre storytelling at that level which is a little bit more applicable to them. So it’s like baby boomers are like one of the biggest age group that you know use Facebook. Yes. So you’ll see sometime the Facebook ads can be a little bit more generic a little bit more about like you know talk about you know related back to cannabis.

17:44 A lot of the ads on there about like you know if it is cannabis really is about CBD oils or like health and wellbeing and things like that versus like Instagram. And that can be a little bit more fashion fun a little bit more edgier because it’s a younger demographic.

18:00 And do you even get to the point where what audience you want to reach on what platform and does that differentiate the story. Yeah.

18:09 So that’s the beauty of segmentation like you have to get down to that like cranial level and really understand how your customers interact with your brand. And then if they are really clear and then if there is a huge like you know separation or there is some overlap then you start to figure out how you want to do it what’s the timing and how that looks. Yes and you can get you can maximize your art. It’s cool. Yeah.

18:31 So with the process of Moon Flower like we had this will go round a bit but what was that process like. Like the game to you you guys. I mean the relationship blow up before but what what were some of the questions like What were some of the meetings like to get to this point. Like how did how did you come up with the look the feel and all of that type of stuff.

18:52 It’s always like that deep dive. He’ll initiate that like the initial is really you know meeting the team which I can you know you met Danielle and so I had a prior connection with her because her brother and go he owns Caroline and so had a great working relationship with them and this is like their baby their next step to delivery service. And so when Danielle first approached me she’s like you know we’ve been scaling we’ve been scaling really really fast. We just had our first billboard up in Panama. But it’s northern Californian which is a huge huge traffic area by a freeway. And so they’ve been getting a lot in gaining a lot of traction so they’ve been really grown. So she’s like we have a website now. We have a got Instagram. She’s like But I’m just not feeling like it’s really like you know a great representation of who we are and our brand narrative and she’s liking her background stealing women’s fashion.

19:41 So she knows you know. So she’s like she can speak that language she’s like that is just not right. Am I OK so who are you. Would you say you are. And she starts talking about like you know how it’s how the brand is like you know ingrained in being like the light in the tunnel. So using like these constant whereas there was a lot of similarities between these worries it’s like cool light in a tunnel healing perspective talks about this story about you know them losing their mom their mother and how you know the moon fire is like you know is birth out of dark times. But it’s like a light. It’s it’s like OK you’re you you start you’re giving me some some similarities here that are very different words but they have a similar meaning to it.

20:19 And I was I caused the typical we’ll do a little sit down have a deep dive and it’s literally like they’re they’re loading me with like you know what they’re currently doing best what they will love to do. Who are some of their competitors that are doing stuff that they love him to form a look fill a aesthetic perspective. So there is just like pretty much a deep dive but also just dumping stuff at me. Yeah yeah. So we’re dumping and we’re looking at other Web sites he’s doing what I call what we like about this Web site maybe just like there this is super seamless are made. They are that they have like a lot of visual overlays are a lot of videos on my core. I’m just taking notes and then from there it’s just a bulk so a static wise. What are we thinking what are we liking. Like what’s the aperture. Like are you liking a little bit more darker side get to the nuts and bolts of it. And sometimes feel like Danielle’s really visual as well and so she’ll pull swipe what we say an industry is like visual inspiration.

21:09 So you’ve got a Pinterest like Web sites Instagram you literally saving just doing like a whole folder itself for me I’ll still pull a couple of images from my life. Cool I got it. I’m like I get overarching story I get the narrative. For me it’s like how do I put a wrapper on it and serve it up to sites like went to like two different scenarios and kind of start pulling all the bases are the words she was talking him out and just kind of point it together. So it felt like he was tying a cohesive message.

21:36 Gosh. So I mean it’s literally just a discovery asking questions about the discovery phase.

21:40 Yeah. And it’s like it’s I but you have made collaborative because I feel like sometimes if it’s interesting SEO you’ll meet some clients who just want you to go and do you. But I feel like the more heat sometimes you want to bring them in with some restraint. Right. Would like cool like I want to let you know this is what I’m thinking. How are you feeling you’re out there so it’s not always a surprise you know and I think Daniel my relationship with for Moon Fire is like you know she’s like like she’s a good friend of mine so I’m just like hey girl Oh my. It’s so. Like this on my own I know I should feel about on things overseas that I was dealing with you know with someone of gap it’s a little bit like cool like they’re a little bit more baked it’s a little bit more political there yeah.

22:16 So you have to kind of still check em but then again you still have to you know do you ever find it difficult if someone just goes you have free reign just go do you find more tons and not whenever you deliver the first look it’s like what.

22:28 Well that’s where I think you know that fear comes from. Right. Clear typically is not having all the information. Yeah yeah. Right. So for me that’s I’m like OK. If it’s like where they like go and do it I’m like. And I feel good I feel really clear I’m like OK. But if there’s something else like a doubt I don’t have a fear there I’m just like 90 more information from you like we need to sit down and actually you know seriously because then you realize you’re like you’re going away like hold on. I don’t have all that you know the pieces of the puzzle that I thought I need but I’m you know responsible for creating some huge you know visions visions. Yeah but you’re just they’re like hey take this this is this is who our customer is you know.

23:08 So it’s all I mean you have that discovery phase. So it’s almost like you’re just listening for those keywords they’re heading on that are synonyms of each other and everything like that once you get it down on paper then it’s like OK what is the connotation or what is the feel or what are what are the fields of all these different words and from there it starts helping paint a picture Yeah.

23:26 And then you add a huge part of that again like where you come in is is like the analytics like where’s your card customer and like how are they currently engaging with you.

23:34 What are they liking or what are they. When you go to your website where they spend the most time on your landing page why they’re sending out newsletters what’s the click through rate that you’re having like you know an overhead or whatever I said an average has I’m registering with that on your Instagram page. Are people saying in your photos are you. What are they like the most is that. Your photos aren’t all raw they’re close up on the product. It’s all about people you know. You know just being in love with the product and stuff like that. I try to look at things like that then kind of helps lead the direction.

24:06 I love it. So being on the data because that’s it’s a continual optimization of the look the field the created that gets pretty it’s all that type of stuff and as you I mean any question that comes up. I mean you can be test and really see what’s working and say hey this is working really well if I a little gold nuggets and you kind of just run with them and it’s it’s amazing the companies that continually do that just how quickly they can grow.

24:31 Have you ever. So it’s it’s actually interesting have you ever thought about I mean even just recording you don’t even need to a podcast or recording some conversations and transcribing it and throwing into a word cloud and I mean you can hear you’ll write down some of the words that you think but there might be some things that pop out that didn’t resonate.

24:47 And so what you can do is transcribe the audio so that it’s all written word basically in there’s some called a word cloud where you can upload that file and then I’ll have the size like things that are said more frequently we’ll be bigger. And so there might be things that stick out that oh I don’t even think about that. That would kind of see like those commonalities right. Yeah. So it sounds like it’s what a lot of it is just hearing those like I said the keywords and everything and it’s it’s the light at the end of the tunnel the. Yeah. Just yeah. The feeling of good and all that and really running with that direction.

25:22 Yeah I mean to your point that’s a lot of listening a ton to listening tons of connecting also like again understanding what their vision is getting some type of looks like feels like from them sometimes really helps and then you kind of you can navigate and understand otherwise you know sometimes that you have to have an aesthetic background I should say a background but you have to have a good aesthetic. I think in in creative or in our styling or whatever you have to be able to know in terms of like color palette and what complement each other in text.

25:54 And finally you know I mean that’s the. I just signed a little. That’s why I love having these guys. Yes I’m partly colorblind so color plays are horrible.

26:03 I was on the ghost ball field do it have a black sock and a navy blue Saigon and they both look black and that’s why I love her and your background and everything like that because it’s like there are all these things that you can test in and taking the data from it. But I I don’t I don’t have a background in that on what what you’re saying. I don’t know what colors resonate our achieve what the vision is that you have based off of what you’re saying and everything like that and that’s why I think there’d be some huge opportunity that’s working together because then that would set the tone of when we start producing videos or whatever it may be what is the font that you know is going to resonate and the colors and and all of that and the actual narrative of the creative and what’s being said we can maybe test all of it. But having that background and knowledge I mean would get us to that winning our way much quicker. I agree. So with this I mean what. I guess what would it be like to work to. What does that look like.

27:05 Would it be just hey we had this client they don’t really know and then it would be let’s set up a discovery call I guess what would it what would that process look like if we had a couple clients and I think I agree with what you’re saying I think it’s funny because I did something similar with Caroline before and that’s how I started really getting my feet I kind of like you know deeper and deeper and until they I cannabis industry because they saw me in similar into the cannabis community and like you know really helping brands identify their brand story and identity and a narrative and all that stuff like that and so very similar. Mean so I think some of our wins were kind of like creating strategic process of what that looks like. So it’s just like once we get that new client you know we’re vetting them with that first.

27:47 It’s like discovery phase right. And then the second phase is just like where we’re coming back on Hey where are we. This is what we hear. This is the brand breathe and then we’re going to pitch back to you creatively what this looks like three you approve it four will go and actually execute on and start building on it and then for us like lights on we’re actually delivering upon it in like we’re going to go and the next step is really just reading the results and then figure out how we can paper it from there and start back over again. Gosh yeah.

28:16 So I mean yeah it would just basically bring it in on any new client that comes in. Just be part of that conversation and I mean very similar to some of the questions that we have is what I what what do you want to look and feel like and all that type of stuff. But it’s it’s none of us have that kind of background to hear it and actually put it on paper and be in line and so it would cut down on the revision process the good content to market a lot quicker and everything like that. And so after this we’d love to chat about kind of your rates or what that I’m so down I’m very like speech person.

28:50 I try to be no seriously like you know it’s it’s like you know you meet people and I’m like over looking and then one of my homeboys like plug who plug me into you and he was like Yeah he’s super dope guy has a cool aesthetic has a great team is like perfect and let me meet him and then we get it down on the phone and it was an easy conversation just like perfect and like he was speaking the language I was like This is what is wrong with it.

29:12 I mean that’s all we’re trying to find like minded people that know their lane and let’s bring all of our towns together and just help businesses grow back. I mean everyone has their own talent. And as long as everyone’s doing it for what they love you know they’re doing because they love it. That’s where so much success. And that’s where magic is gonna happen. Ashes to yes finding them in an entire year your group.

29:34 Now right now your squad. Yes. So no I mean that’s that’s.

29:42 Love everything about it. I’m I what I’m going to do is quickly try and find as much opportunity or income in together and just start working with clients together because it’s it’s huge. I mean that that would help us just the brand identity part just nail that down of our four pillars quite a bit and just love everything you’re saying your approach in and how you kind of go about it.

30:05 And so it’s awesome that interview like a real interview you now see my hair as it means you know what.

30:15 You know it’s a dog gas. No no know getting.

30:20 No. Yeah you work with such a lot of great brands like what is it the state 40 stay for a super dope now.

30:27 Yeah yeah there’s a I mean it’s it’s kind of all over the board homebuilders real estate agents can think of more on top of my head right now. So good to see you. So you have a pretty like why. Like you know aperture but yeah small larger business recently brought on a business development person so it’s basically gone after some of the larger companies maybe those that are doing not a million a year are more. And so just to do what we want to do to produce the videos get it out there have healthy up budget and all that type stuff just takes a balanced budget. So take 10.

31:05 And then there was a direction but it is just like we want. This is just like okay so we have we have like when you see like like you know we can’t even afford me. All right. And I can just but it’s it’s like seriously how I keep we want those things.

31:21 Yes we’ve seen our budget is this is like going into a Lambo deal with Honda but yeah that’s OK. Just doesn’t like what you’re wanting isn’t what your budget. And that’s fine.

31:32 And so it’s it’s yeah I mean it’s been put in a lot of hours and I just haven’t had the time to go out and nurture those bigger clunkers those sales just take a lot longer. Oh wanted to be. And so it’s been huge. Bring it on someone else to help with that where I can explain what we do how we can help articulate the the that we’re our life focused and all that.

31:53 And then once once they’re gonna more interested that’s where the team can come in and then introduce what we do go the case studies and it’s just a long process one that I mean I can do and so as we’re talking the bigger brands that have bigger budgets and all that but that need biggest thing is don’t know how to talk to our audience digitally and that’s that’s whether be digitally or whatever form of media. There’s just a huge need an articulate in their story to smaller audiences. There’s been I mean in been around for a while but just the yellow one but I like one message to everyone and it’s just like oh it will have a joke in here or worse just like literally you’re just running on the street yelling to everyone and say how many people are actually on work with you as opposed to all right. I know what I want to say to 25 to 44 year olds that have this household. That’s one message then it’s identifying as different audiences and how can we how can we tell your story to them that’s going to resonate with them get them interested in your brand and then get them into the store to buy online whatever it may be. It takes a lot of thinking to get through all that and so totally.

32:56 It’s funny. I’m like listening to you and it’s funny and like even driving over your end like I was driving this way last week and on the orders is at the 10 there’s like all these huge billboards all right. I like all these like lawyers are accident injury like companies and there’s that one company that’s been around for Eric some from year he thing and he thinks and this huge big board of this old guy up there right now he’s just sitting there he looks like an old lawyer and it says discount lawyers it’s like what.

33:24 Like what.

33:25 Why would you do that again this is like you’re just screaming that like but as a as a customer yelling do why would that resonate with me. Discount lawyer like why would I even want a bike. Tell me something about you like you it doesn’t make any sense.

33:37 It’s just like the same thing but it’s just so bone in your face it’s just like what’s an ax like I wouldn’t want to use em just talks about again storytelling brand narrative. How do you like surprise in a way engage your target customer without just being like sell like vanilla and big and bold.

33:55 Yeah I know that’s what everyone is there’s two to vanilla. It’s funny you bring bring them up hating it because it’s I don’t know why but his like seen on TV recently I’ve seen the billboards I’m like got an accident. I don’t want it. That’s not something I want to scrimp on and get a discount.

34:09 No I don’t want my money.

34:12 Yes I mean it’s like then there’s no messaging really big messages. Yeah no exactly.

34:18 So it’s like I mean these are really you know relative to that and what they’re going through. That customer is like current mindset. Right. Goes back to like what’s their current mindset. What are they trying to stop or like during that timeframe right.

34:31 So as we talked about you make it feel a little bit more authentic and relative to yeah it’s funny you bring up the tan because there’s a not a huge fan of billboards in general I mean they do. I mean great brand awareness. Can I say one message for the most part but there’s this company that we found where you can literally just take a JPEG and then upload it and that’s your creative you can run it during certain hours and all of that. And so we’re literally talking about a last night where there’s placements along the 10 and really want to target those people from our two guys that are heading downtown those are probably business people. But with that you can sequentially message where billboard 1 Hey or EIC 2 we help tell your brand are we helped help you grow by telling her story digitally and then basically over the course of five billboards on your way to town have a different message on each one in this you’re telling your story over the course of them and I’m like Because our thought was we can run them between 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. when people are you know.

35:27 Yeah. Yeah exactly and so hitting the audience the business audience they want to hear. And that’s I just don’t I don’t I’m not a huge fan of spending money that reaches anyone everyone because there’s wasted impressions or whatever it may be. But I mean that’s a prime example of love your thoughts on does that look like and I mean what what does the billboard look like. I mean if it’s during the day what colors will you use of that night to make a pop in on that type of stuff but just huge on the storytelling aspect and how do we tell that so it’s going to resonate really well saying what it says on TV. I mean never been a huge fan of TV ads. Everyone loves them but it typically only recent 30 percent of viewer like target audience and so it’s like okay well then to me that what that number tells me is are 70 percent of people who don’t even care. And now there’s can literally what it’s called Connected TV where we’re dealing with the rise and we’re going on this next month. We just did the commercials and so there’s a couple of stores where literally we could take the credit that we did and run TV ads within a five mile radius for anyone that has surged in the last 30 days for new phone plans now. And so it’s like you can get super strategic and they’re like yes that’s a little bit more real.

36:40 Yes. Casting on a nightly. Exactly. Exactly. What’s cool is this. You will watch it.

36:45 You can retarget them and serve them banner ads and there’s just a lot that you can do with actually tying in a TV view to actual sales. And so get super super fascinating and that’s where it’s like we have the ability to target so many different people it’s like how do we segment and what is that story that’s going to resonate. And that’s where yeah it’ll be huge to have you have your help in that area too.

37:07 I’m like you got you have the whole like analytical I see your eyes. I didn’t see you just like that.

37:21 Yeah it’s good. Well it’s not done right.

37:23 I mean it’s amazing where. I mean you can take I mean taking someone that was literally lose 30 cents for every dollar that we’re spending on paid media and then turn it around and they’re making three dollars for every dollar they’re spending and whenever. I mean you can just identify through data all the things that are working and things that aren’t. You can literally help change family trees because it’s like that company that’s been just part time for the last couple generations. They just trust in the team the squad and everyone executes and all the sudden you just get them from a million dollar company to attend to a time to the hundred and it’s like you can change a lot a lot of lives in your approach in doing that. Like

38:02 do you find it. I’m just curious you know especially being in Arizona is a lot like educating and a lot of handholding because I feel like I mean Arizona being such a huge I don’t have heavy like populated place. I feel like a lot of it’s still very archaic. Oh yeah. So I would say from a fashion perspective I’m curious and I like I’m like your perspective like you know you get these you know big mom and pop companies is it in and you’re trying to help down my. This is why you should do this. Nestle is really working because I feel like there would be a little bit more old school. Yeah. Yeah.

38:32 I mean even. Yes. And even big companies that you work with that I mean have a million a month in ad advertising dollars. I mean it’s bringing on the table and like I’m asking the audience. Well we live in an awesome world now where we have data and can show it. And literally the job I had before this. That was the job I had as I was doing this as a side hustle would come on the table and like hey we our audience is literally high school kids young adults we need to be on Instagram Facebook and this is I mean even only two years ago but we’re running programmatic display ads and there’s like a cost per leader like a thousand bucks and it took three months for me to get to order like 250 bucks to run on Facebook and Instagram. We did it started driving leads like twenty five dollars literally sat in a meeting.

39:22 I don’t believe that data. Right well we have Salesforce and we can see that it’s working. It is crazy that even when people you present the data just like I don’t believe it. So it’s 100 percent of the education that’s why. So data driven as I sat in too many meetings where we’re doing all this stuff and while and I don’t believe it’s like All right well we need the data to show up and even then it’s not really work insulins. All right well how do we take this data and tie it into the financials so that hey we’re showing you this are why you can’t really you can’t argue that. So and that’s right. And that’s that’s why just huge on on the ROIC aspect and performance based and all that. It’s like here all the time so many agencies. So we got a million likes or a million impressions or we reached a million people but it’s like how many people actually sold it like bought.

40:12 Right. And that’s that’s I mean that’s what you can take to the bank and pay employees and all that as those numbers are cool. But if there’s a correlation to the actual revenue that’s driven then yeah that’s a cool number and so just huge on what numbers are KPI is they’re out there that correlate to increased revenues and from that it’s what is the content producing to generate that are aligned on that. So right now so yeah I appreciate all the and more about you and your story and so how about we give you a little shout outs. I mean if you how can people find you or you know as people listen to this its audience is business business base and all that. And so someone to work with you on their story how can they reach you.

40:59 So G.M. is Philip Robert Holmes is Philip with two L’s. I need those two L’s. Also my instagram for like any type of content creation is just Philip Robert.

41:09 So it’s probably like the two best like channels kind of connect me with me.

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