Evo Terra has been in podcasting since the beginning, when he was part of the team behind an internet-based broadcast in 2002. Now his company, Simpler Media, helps businesses like yours with the lessons he’s learned. One of the questions he gets most often from business owners considering a podcast is, “What am I going to talk about?” Instead, Evo says, “Ask ‘What do I want to achieve?’ A podcast episode has a beginning, middle and end. It’s going to tell a story. What story is that — your brand? Your thought leadership? Why your people are special? Think about telling the story that needs to be told to drive business outcomes.”
| Rise Grind Repeat 103 |
On today’s episode of Rise, Grind, Repeat, we talked to Evo Tara, being one of the pioneers of podcasting, we discuss his journey towards that today. Let’s dive right in. Eva, thank you so much for joining on another episode of Rise, Grind, Repeat, excited for this, mainly because you help a lot of businesses with with podcasts. And obviously, we have a podcast and see the power of it. But excited to hear more about your journey and entrepreneurship and really how your company helps businesses start and get their podcast going. Maybe get some some tips for those that are on the verge of starting their own and edges here and learn more about about you.
Great as to thank you very much for having me on the program, lots of things that I’m happy to share and talk about podcasting kind of my life. And it has been a big part of my life since back in 2004, when I had the 40th podcast ever, which is crazy to even think about. But that’s how long I’ve been doing this. And it’s what I do full time. So yeah, let’s let’s have the conversation.
Love it. Well, before you got into podcasting, I guess how did you get started on your journey to entrepreneurship.
It’s like many people, never a planned road as people of my generation, you know, it just sort of happened as things were going on. My first real taste of entrepreneur ism. Other than some, you know, dabbling with things when I was a kid came when I was in Los Angeles and working a full time job. But I met this guy who I encounter on a regular basis, kept talking about all this really cool things happening on the internet. And so I kind of jumped along with him and taught myself Well, what I what I thought I taught myself was web design. Now I know that was not what I told myself. I taught myself how to hack HTML, which is a very, very different thing altogether. So that’s how it began, I was doing that. And I was facing a crossroads. What do I want to do with my life? Do I want to go because it’s the 90s? Do I want to go on this internet direction, which there was a lot of opportunities there? Or do I want to kind of double down on my career with this company. And at the time, I chose to double down on the career with the company that got me here to Phoenix, Arizona, I was at the corporate office working in the C suite doing all the great things, but really not what I wanted to do. I mean, I was doing the corporate grind thing. And I love the people who do the corporate grind thing. We need people to do the corporate grind thing, but it just wasn’t me. And at the time I as a hobby, I got into this thing called podcasting first started as Internet radio and then began podcasting. And at some point time, I said, You know, I really rather like doing this than that. So I quit. And yeah, that kind of set me off on on the journey of where I go. And from there that became alright to have this side hustle called podcasting. While I’m also going to be running digital advertising agencies on the other side. So what No, my job would fund my hobby, and find a way to blend those two things together. Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s the beginning of the road. And it’s a it’s a never ending twisting road with no with no end in sight.
No area on that. I mean, that’s the beauty of the internet is it allows people to start their own side hustle. And if it turns into something more, you can make that transition. But I mean, you know, back when the internet started, it was, you know, highly considered a fad. And so I mean, you were definitely an early adopter. And I mean, how, what types of opportunities do you find on online? I mean, it’s, you have a lot of people that push back, and it’s almost like you have to convince someone that there is opportunity and either growing their brand or that commerce can be done on online. So I mean, how did you navigate that? And I’m sure that having the full time job helped.
Yeah, it really did. But it was a constant battle. I mean, here’s at the time I was this young kid up in the C suite, getting these older dudes to really push forward on this idea that this internet thing is not a fad. And that, yeah, we actually can sell goods and services online. You know, we started doing this back in 1999, we were pushing these big physical products, which you can’t install at home. I’m purposely not talking about the company. They might be based in Arizona, they might be a tire manufacturer, tire retailer, but I’m not saying that out loud. So yeah, just trying to get them to realize that there’s e commerce is going to be a thing. I know, we have all these stores that do most of the sales through them, and we want to keep supporting them. But there’s a there’s a way to do both. There’s a way to do both of these things. And a large part of the executive team got it. But a large part of these exit team either didn’t get it or didn’t care about it because they were making money hand over fist. And so why do this big thing. So, you know, that’s always the challenge in that in anything online. The same challenges presented themselves when I was running digital advertising agencies, trying to convince clients you know large clients or multinational clients to spend more money online to shift money away from print and television, into the space where people are spending their time more efficiently. constant struggle. But the good news is for every one that doesn’t get it, there’s a dozen that do. Yeah, we’re looking for someone to really do it right. So I don’t spend my time. Luckily, I’m not in sales I’ve never really been at in sales. It’s more of just taking the right opportunities and making sure that you can do the best with the clients money.
Yeah, no, it’s interesting. I mean, even still, today, there’s quite a bit that spent on traditional compared to digital and those conversations or persuading or whatever, whatever it may be, are still happening, which is crazy. But I think one thing you hit the nail on the head with is when things are good, and you’re making money hand over fist, kind of lack innovation. And I, you know, I think that a big push over the last 12 months, you know, since Coronavirus came in is it’s expedited the digital transformation and getting more businesses to lean into technology, automation, all that stuff. Because when when things are good, you’re not wanting to do this big change. It’s all unknown. And it’s never fun to go through. But you know, I said it a couple times. But the thing I can appreciate about what’s happened through the pandemic, and everything is it’s forced people to change, get creative change business models. And I think a lot a lot of innovation and creativity is come up from it. And largely spark because of the internet and how quickly things can be done how you can communicate even more. So just operating a business in general, the fact that you can have discussions and, and everything digitally.
Yeah, you know, 20 years ago, it was all about what can we do with the internet. But today, it’s what our customers demanding. We do in this new digital world that will forget the internet. I mean, everything in our lives is connected and digital right now. And it’s no longer a choice. And it hasn’t been a choice for a long time. But now customers are realizing it and waking up or companies are waking up to the reality that, especially after the pandemic we’ve just went through when we were all forced to do a lot more things distance remote, through the internet through the web to digital devices than we ever have before. Customers kind of liked that. And that’s why they hated much of the pandemic, don’t get me wrong, they found a lot of efficiencies, and and now, every business, I don’t care what business you’re in, you’re being judged by your customers based not against your peers, other people who do the same thing you do, but against every other digital interaction they have. So that’s the real challenge. Businesses now have to do this, they have to wake up to the fact that this customer experience is a key thing. I’m harping on customer experience, because we just launched on Monday, on Sunday or Monday of this week, we just launched this gigantic podcast for SAP customer experience, or went out and interviewed 20 different high end cx C suite level executives and thought leaders around what the future of digital customer experience was going to look like. And it’s still fresh in my brain, because we just put that gigantic podcast out there. But everything I say is totally true. I mean, there’s just this overwhelming need for from people, for businesses to do better. They want better experiences, and they’re going to reward the ones that are providing that to them.
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, everyone just wants less friction and whatever it is that they want to buy, whether it’s the research, the actual purchase part, and that’s all digital does, reduces the amount of friction to give the customer consumer what it is that they actually want. And so I think, yeah, both consumers and businesses are realizing I mean, I’ve had conversations that, you know, have a whole agency that’s out of the office, and it’s like, well, we’re paying 100 grand a month and rent, no one’s here. And we’re still operating, you know, kind of where we were. I mean, and I think there’s a lot of realizations that that are happening. And I think what excites me and you know, how we kind of found you is the whole podcast aspect of it. I think it’s it’s very undervalued. In most businesses, it’s almost in terms of channels. It’s almost like the internet where it’s just people don’t realize the value. And I’m big on it because it doesn’t take as much time to produce this video. It’s people get it better than than blogs are written word. And I think there’s a lot that is said about the podcast side. So I’d love to hear how did you get into podcasting? Especially so early? Was it more of a hobby? Did you see opportunity? A little bit of both?
Yeah, a little bit of both. We were actually doing an internet radio show way back in the day, like in 2002. My partner and I were doing this dumb internet radio show just for fun, more than anything else. And then a couple of years later, when podcasting hit we were very fortunate that we had several 100 episodes of our show done. We had a blog, we had people listening to this internet radio show all over the world, the hard way, clicking through on the real media player on the website, and a handful of stations we got syndicated on so for us making the transition to podcasting was what took me cracking open the blog, CMS and faking this little thing called an enclosure tag with my very, very limited cis skills. That was it that set the the path in motion And then being that early in the process, I had the opportunity to write podcasting for dummies, the first edition, which came out in 2005. And that just sort of made everything move forward, I had a business where we were trying to end succeeded in helping independent authors, or I should say, under published authors reach an audience with their published book. This was before Amazon had Kindles. This is back when Amazon sold physical things, not just digital goods. And we were helping them make their audio books into serialized podcasts that they would narrate and read, we had like 700 of those out at one time, shooting around to 2 million downloads a month, it was a that was a blast really doing that. But then that was the model change big time, because suddenly audible says, You know what you can do author, you could just push upload, and make your book available for free for 99 cents, you know, with just your Word document. So that kind of changed the picture. So I’d been in the podcasting space for a second since the beginning, watched a lot of my friends, jump into the consulting space right away and start charging money and start making a really good living doing that. But I always kind of held off. I held off because I mean, honestly, other than being in it for the longest time. And yeah, I wrote podcasting for dummies and a few other books in podcasting. Who am I to tell some individual person what they should or should not do with their creative hobby. It’s not like anybody’s making money with that was back in the day. Well, fast forward to you know, 2014 2015. And suddenly, businesses are starting to look at podcasting. The same way. They started looking at social media, 10 years before that, and 10 years before that, just getting on a getting a web page up, because no one’s picking up those yellow pages that set out by the mailboxes anymore. So is the same kind of thing. You know, 20 years later, it’s the new thing businesses are getting into. And I looked back at my career saying, Well, you know, I’ve ran digital advertising agencies and Dustin, as you know, companies are very happy to pay agencies to do things so that the company doesn’t have to learn how to do that. Yep. So I said, Well, maybe there are businesses out there that want to pay someone to make a podcast, and if they’re gonna pay somebody, they might as well pay me so they actually get a good one. So that’s when I launched simpler media, I was living in Bangkok, Thailand at the time, semi retire, doing some modeling type stuff, which was weird. And I know, totally insane. So I launched the company to really start making businesses podcast for businesses. Again, that was in 2016. And here we are in 2021. I’ve got, you know, big companies like SAP as a client, we’re making really amazing, immersive, great deep experiences and podcasts that take literally months to put together, this last one took almost a year to actually get it out. It’s serious production level work. But it’s so rewarding, because we’re putting content out there that really resonate with people. And also the most important thing is that drives business outcomes. There’s a reason for doing it now and doing it the right way possible.
I love that you said that because it’s and that’s how we’re trying to kind of position our agency is not we do SEO, we do video we do. We don’t do services, we help trying to achieve outcomes, and whether that’s acquiring new customers lifetime value, whatever that may be. But I think I think, again, you hit the nail on the head is people are realizing that it’s not just getting in front of a mic and talking, it’s a way to educate your consumer in a way that’s more penetrable, then other channels, essentially. And I think it does achieve those business outcomes. And I think once you can start to articulate or show the ROI of anything, that’s when you start getting more buy in and more companies start doing it. I mean, you were definitely ahead of the game. And I mean, have you always it seems like you help. Do you help in the remote sense? Or is it all in a studio? Basically here in the valley?
Oh, no, almost everything is remote. I mean, I, I used to have one client here in the valley. And he moved to California. So my client, but he’s no longer here in the valley. Now I have I have clients overseas. Yeah. And that’s the great thing about podcasting is even for the time I’ve been involved with it since 2004, I think the most of these episodes I’ve ever recorded with my host or partners or whatever has all been done remotely. You know, there’s just, it’s, it’s available now. It was it’s been available for 20 years, and now it’s even more available. We have all these tools at our disposal, which allow us to connect and interface with people. There’s no need for the physical proximity. Sometimes we have to do things physically, you know, we need if we’re recording a roundtable discussion of people and it’s actually physical, then we need to go on location with shotgun mics and, and pick all of that stuff up like you would for any other production. But for the vast majority of work that we do, it’s all done remotely, you don’t know that the listener will never know that’s the case because it all sounds like we were in the same room together. That’s the ultimate goal.
And I mean, how do you achieve that? Because I mean, it’s it’s tough when you know, someone in Canada, all they have is a computer do you guys help with the Alright, here’s the equipment basically, here’s the equipment you need to get here’s a checklist
watch. ship the equipment straight out to them. Yeah, that’s it, depending on what the level of need is. A lot of people, again, it’s been a year of having to have conversations like this. So more and more people are recognizing the fact that maybe I should sound look a little bit better. Yeah, so they’re upgrading their equipment. So a lot of people have really good equipment, but many don’t. So when we are doing a remote recording session, when we’re engineering remotely, oftentimes, we will ship out a box, and that box gets to them and they unpack it, it’s got instructions inside everything plugged in, we have a remote engineer on the call, 30 minutes before the recording session begins to make sure everything sounds as good as you possibly can, getting to do things like turn off your air conditioner, or maybe you should move away from the window or it kitchen is not really the greatest place to do all this. So we’ll help coach them through that. But then the real work becomes after that after the interview or recording session is done, we spend a lot of time in post production cleaning up those audio files so that it doesn’t sound like it was recorded over the internet. Again, it sounds like it was recorded in a professional studio.
Now. That’s awesome. And I think the offering is just amazing in the fact you’ve been doing it for so long, well ahead of just pandemic times, I think is is huge. You definitely see the vision, the opportunity that that is there. And I think more businesses are are seeing it as well. And I’m sure you’re getting busier. And with that being said, I you know, talked to a lot of people, they they asked about our podcast, how do you do it? And I think a lot a lot of a lot of the barrier to getting things going is what do I talk about? I see that you kind of do help with that, in a sense. And so for an entrepreneur or a business that I see the value, I just don’t know what it is I want to talk about how do you guys go through that process or help Ida maybe different segments or what what the overall topics should be, again, that are going to lead to that ultimate outcome that you’re looking to do, which is either drive new customers keep employee retention, whether it’s an internal podcast, how do you guys go about that?
Yeah. And it all starts with those those questions of what are you trying to achieve? What What is the business outcome you’re looking for outputs are easy, don’t stop thinking about how many downloads Am I going to get and what plot none of that matters? None of that matters, what matters, your business outcome. So that’s where the conversation begins. And then after that, it really, if you’re if people listening to this right now I’ve ever done any type of content marketing, I’ve got a secret for you. That’s all podcasting is. Its content marketing, we’re making content. So if you don’t know what to say, on a podcast, would you know what to say if you were to write a book, and that’s oftentimes where I’ll start with with a with a client is if instead of podcasting, if you were thinking of having your business, write a book, what would the chapters of that book be? Well, the outline look like? What’s the outcome you’re trying to get with having that book? Why is the book on the marketplace? And that typically gets some of the thinking about it in a different light, then they’re not thinking about, oh, I have to do this thing week after week after week. No, that’s not what podcasting has to be a lot of podcasts are that way. My podcast goes up four days a week, which is insane. Wow, that is insane. Think about it. It is insane. Yes, it is. Think about it more from a from a self contained format. You’re going to do this you’re gonna have it’s gonna have a beginning and a middle and an end. There’s a story you’re trying to tell what is that story? is the story of your brand? is the story of your thought leadership. Is it the showcasing why your people are so amazing, especial great, don’t think about it from a podcast point of view, think about content, we’re going to build content for this, how could we go through and do that. And from there, of course, you know, a lot of workshopping and writing down ideas and blasting things out. But it’s a process that you have to go through. Like anything worth doing. It’s a it’s a big process to get it all established. But what I try and tell my clients is, do not worry about the technology, we got the tech, the tech is handled it is. Look, when you sit down to write a book, no one worries about what type writer they’re going to buy, or what font you should use in your book. That’s not important. None of that is more important as the content itself. So let’s focus on that. Let’s focus on building content in blocks and modules, whatever we need to do, to make sure that we’re telling the story that needs to be told to drive those business outcomes and the tech and the How to stuff all that will take care of itself. Let’s get the Y figured out first.
Yeah. And I mean, there’s a lot of businesses that even struggle with that small and large on what is the why and I mean, even then it’s okay. I want to tell our story. How have you seen the the most successful podcast that you’ve helped with be done? What types of stories are being told? Is it that the business is interviewing their current clients or customers and talking about their experience? Is it more talking to internal employees and what is day in the lifelike or what are some of the more successful types of topics or ways that companies are telling stories that are leading to those businesses results.
So the reality, the reality is this format doesn’t matter format is completely dependent on what it is you’re trying to do. There are some very successful single person interviewing single person general chat casts, as we call them. Some of those are quite successful. But is that what your customers really want to listen to? If so, great, you should do that. Is it more of internal employees talking about the latest thing that’s happening in the business and showing how smart they are for thought leadership that can work really well? Is that what your customers or prospects or whoever it is want to listen to? If so do that. So there really isn’t a magic format that works. There’s a, there’s a lot of overused formats, and a lot of underused formats that work. I mean, like, I’ll go back to the show we just did for SAP, that was 20 different interviews. It’s only six episodes long. So each episode has five to 10 voices on the side of it, as we’re telling this narrative story about what customer experience is like, it’s a six part series that leads people through it. So if, and it’s it’s great, it was a lot of work to put together but it each episode is self contained. It tells its own story. And it really works. I mean, it’s the kind of thing you listen to and everybody learned something from. So I the the What Works is what works, what are you trying to achieve? What is going to be what fits within the budget? There are a lot of factors that can go to it. But you know, the great thing about podcasting is it’s just an audio file, what that audio file is up to us.
Yep, no, I agree. And I think one thing that they said that sticks out is, you know, there are overused and underused types of formats. And I mean, you mentioned the one with sa p, are there any other underused formats that you can kind of speak to and I think help maybe spark data? Because I think another thing is everyone focuses on those overused, and I don’t want to be like everyone else. I don’t think that that format fits my business. What are some of those underused formats that
you’re saying? I’ll give you one because there’s a lot we can talk about. I’ll give you one. And it’s there’s a lot of terms for this one, but I like to call it the host plus show. And the way we work is like this. So So let’s say that you want to do an interview show. But you really want to make the interview more about the customer or the guests you’re interviewing, then it is you and for a lot of businesses, that makes a lot of sense, because it’s more of a light touch branding. And it’s it’s showcasing, hey, we’re smart. But we want our guests to really show this Martin so that guests can be a customer that guests could be an employee that whatever that’s up to you to figure it out. So you interview that the people on your show, but then you cut yourself, the interviewer out 100% you are totally and completely removed, it is just the person who you are interviewing, that’s the only voice you hear on the show. Now it takes some nice, some sound design to really make that truly work. It takes a lot of editing. And I don’t mean audio editing, I mean editing in an editorial sense of the text to take the 30 minutes, you’ve interviewed someone and cut that down to the 10 minutes of really good sound bites that go along with that. And if it’s done well, with nice sound design all the way through, it becomes really compelling. Because you’re just hearing one person, say things, it also takes a lot of work from the interview standpoint, in that you have to get people to repeat the question you asked in the answer, you know, no, yes, you know, look, 10 minutes of Yes, no is not going to be you want to make sure that they’re so you may have to ask him the same question two or three times to get it out and weave them in together. But man that you are suddenly inside of someone’s head, what they’re thinking about why they do the things that they do, it’s all showcasing around them. And maybe you have a an announcer if you will, at the beginning in the end to bracket the thing, but the main content is just one person speaking, really a powerful vehicle for telling the story.
That’s interesting. I that that is I’ve never seen that done before. I mean, just as an example, I’d love to see that. Do you have any examples of companies or podcasts that was done? I mean, you don’t have to say now I follow up but it would be it’d be
cool to hear that. But you know where it’s stealing play from radio. You know, radio has done this for a while. I mean, talking about real radio storytelling, not just, you know, talking heads up on radio, but you know, the more deeper in depth stuff. NPR does a lot of this also BBC in the UK, they use these vehicles to tell much longer format stories where you’re really engaged in what’s going on. So but yeah, I’ll be happy to send you a couple of examples of that.
Yeah, that’d be awesome. So I you know, I think going about it, I think you’re absolutely correct. What is the outcome? What does your audience want? I think again, that’s that’s one that a lot of businesses Miss is what do you guys want to hear from or learn more about and I think that can be great direction on once you know what your own customer consumer wants, then That kind of feels the content that you kind of want to speak to. And I think if you can align it with your prospective audience, that’s, that’s where it’s really gonna gonna lead to those business results if the results are sales. I agree. Agree. So get all you get it formatted, you get it done. I think he mentioned early on that, you know, all this is is a form of content marketing. And to me, what excites me is all the things that you can do with a single episode, in terms of chopping it up. I mean, we do it on video. So you have the audio, the video, I mean, you can accompany it with written word, there’s so many things that can be done afterwards, that can lead to that business result that you’re trying to achieve. What are some of those successful I guess, content marketing strategies? Or how have you seen, essentially, once the podcast is done? How is it then sent to the potential consumers?
Yeah, one of the biggest mistakes a lot of podcasters whether they’re business podcasters, or not make is they produce the audio episode, they release the audio episode on whatever their podcast hosting platform is, so that it’s distributed out to Spotify, Apple podcast, all the rest of the usual suspects on there. And that’s it. And they’re done. And they think that like, magically, there are people who are just waiting inside of the these podcast directories, they just waiting for their next episode. And that’s just not the case. Like the case in most things, right? If you build it, they won’t come. I’m sorry, I don’t care what you heard on the field of dreams, they will not come unless you tell them that content marketing means marketing, you’ve got to let people know that this that this content exists. And you are right on on right on the money. We’ll be talking about how you break up and different things. I call that content repurposing. So once the episode is done, now, what do we do? Make an audiogram, which is, you know, the video version of an audio files in social media hates audio. Yeah, sure, that can work. But also, what about your newsletter, if your business is sitting on 60,000 people, feel free to let them know you’ve got a podcast and we’re actively encourage them, and even think about using your email as distribution. Here’s the crazy thing. That’s my podcast, which is only of interest to podcasters. It’s called podcast pontifications. me talking about podcasting. So if you’re not a podcaster, you’re not listening to my show. My shows the big I will admit, I’ll make it simpler. More people read my words than Listen to my words.
Really, really, because I
take every episodes, only my episodes are less than 10 minutes long. And then I take the audio from there to get a transcript, correct the transcript that goes up on the website, but then I take that transcript, and I rewrite literally, every word I said, every single day, and I make this long form article around around 1500 words is what I say out loud about 10 minutes. So that’s about how long the rewritten and again, every word is rewritten article. Or sometimes I expand sometimes I remove stuff. That article is read by more eyes than the audio is listened to by ears. And again, I want to remind you, my audience is only podcasters. That’s it. But still more people read my words, than Listen to my words. And that’s whatever reason for that’s a reality. Yeah, when I’m audio first, it’s audio forward. It’s designed to be a podcast that people listen to, and a lot of people do, but a lot more people wind up just reading the content, because that works. So to me, that’s content repurposing, make content. That’s right, for whatever medium is out there. If you’re shooting video, great, make sure it’s great on video, make an audio make sure it’s great on audio. And but also don’t forget the written piece. Don’t forget the social pieces. Don’t forget the email distribution, all of those things. Where are your customers? Where are your prospects? Where is your audience at? Meet them there with content for that particular medium?
That’s interesting. I would not suspect the more people would read than Listen, I think. I mean, in all honesty, how did you feel when you started seeing the numbers, you know, reflect that? Because I mean, it’s podcasts and audio, and then you start seeing that, wait, I’m doing all this work for the audio, and then people are just reading it. I mean, it can lead one to get discouraged. But I mean, it sounds like you kind of ran with it. And
yeah, and a lot of people probably would get discouraging, but you know, that’s the reality we have to do the things people want us to do. And for me, the thing that takes me the most time in my show is that written piece so to me I’m rewarded the fact that it is actually read more. I tell people this all the time, right full on articles for every one of your episodes, and I am universally good. Ah, that’s just way too much work. So much work and my audio ready and I was like, well, I’ve listened to your show. You don’t put that much work into your audio, um, but it is still there. Very worth it for you to do the article, I am living proof that this is working really well, when you do this when you actively encourage people to subscribe to your podcast via email, which is weird. Why would you describe it as gay? Oh, yeah. Again, again, my show is for podcasters more people subscribe to the show via email, then are subscribed on Apple podcast, Spotify or any other places.
So it’s crazy how it all works. You had this grand plan, you’re gonna produce audio, we’re gonna listen to it. But I think again, it goes back to what is it that your consumers are wanting and doing and then kind of kind of pivot your strategy to align align with that, and I think, you know, the written word I only saw it as as more of the SEO side of things. I mean, it helps get ranked and all of that. But it’s it’s interesting to hear that, you know, you’re getting more more readership than the listenership. But even then, it’s it’s people, you know, might question well, why why not just do the blog, but the podcast might be that thing that just looks cool and shiny, that gets the attention that draws them into your overall sphere of of your marketing. And I mean, it’s easy to say you have a blog, everyone since 1995, has had a blog. But I mean, if you save a podcast all of a sudden is like, oh, you’re a little bit different, even though they’re going to consume it as a blog. It’s just a thing that that drives that that awareness, not attention. Yeah, you’re right. I
mean, and again, it goes back to I am I a podcaster. Sure. But I’m also a blogger. Sure. Am I a writer? Of course, I make video. Yeah. So what what do I want to call myself, it kind of doesn’t matter what I want to call myself. I’m like, I’m making content that I want people to consume, and I make it in the medium. They want to consume it. And that’s, that’s the trick, right there. I don’t I don’t try and pigeonhole. You know, do do the thing that you do, and just be where we where people are.
Yep. No, I agree that it’s very well said. And you guys are obviously helping a lot of people with their their content marketing strategy, essentially, you know, if they’re coming out to you, there’s been a lot of discussion on how can we better ourselves in the near future. So knowing that you’re helping a lot of businesses amplify their branding, their message, their voice, and all that type of stuff. What are you guys working on internally, not only for yourself personally, but as a business in more of the next three to six months? And what kind of goals are you guys working on? And what are you looking to accomplish?
Yeah, good question. Things have changed drastically, you know, at the beginning of 2020, I didn’t really know what was going to happen. Most of my clients are small businesses, and small businesses were disproportionately impacted by the last 12 months. I’m very fortunate, in that the impact to me was was negligible. All of my clients seem to manage to get through at least most of them didn’t, I even picked up a few new ones along the way. So that was lovely. What we really decided to do, though, is double down on the much bigger podcasting projects were pivoting, I wouldn’t say pivoting away from but when I first got started, it was, hey, if you wanna make a podcast come to me, I’ll take care of all the technical stuff, and we’ll do it. But we’ve evolved since that time, I brought on a partner, who has 15 years of experience working with the BBC, in learning, podcast, and storytelling. So she’s amazing. It’s great to have her on board. Now. I’ve started freelancing with a few other audio engineers who are doing more of the road stuff. I’ve partnered up with some fantastic finishing artists, if you will, on the end with composers and other things, to really make a much higher end product. Because a lot of businesses who’ve been in podcasting for a while are saying, Okay, this was good. We’re doing well, we’re getting good response. But we can do better. We want to step up to what’s happening with you know, the trader inside Trader Joe’s podcast, that’s the kind of stuff we really want to do. Moving forward, let’s really step outside of our, the normal see that we think podcasting is which is just interviews. And it’s so much more than that. And let’s really leverage this to make things that our customers are whoever really truly want to hear. So we’re moving into a much more the full service model. Again, our anchor client is obviously SAP which has a lot of business opportunities in there. But other sorts of enterprise level businesses who want to really invest in podcasting, it have creative bravery to make a show that’s going to be stand out to put marketing dollars behind that show so that we can really get the president attention that it needs, so that it rises not not to the top of the charts to be on the top of the charts. But so that 10s of 1000s or hundreds of 1000s of people or whatever the number is, are consuming the content in a way so that their business goals on the other side are met. But that’s a that’s a much bigger prospect than just what I like to call it toolbox with microphones, which is where I started my career and I totally get it. But yeah, the business is moving towards a more professional standard. And we’re taking a piece of that.
Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s two totally Different sales cycles, conversations. It’s a big business model move. But I agree, I think there’s tons of opportunities for the enterprise level business, mainly because I, you know, the big enterprise, they have the big marketing budgets. And that’s how they can defeat small business. But I think what more consumers are wanting is a look behind who is behind this brand. Who are these people? What are your stories, and more just, they want more humanized brands. And I think that’s where the small business can really excel, because they can make the moves, they can do a come to market quickly. And so I think there’s a there’s a huge need in the enterprise level, but I think it’s tough moving the needle there.
But I think it really is. And back to the idea that small businesses, you know, something you said earlier, no, that the great thing about podcasting is it’s easier to do than all these other platforms. And yes, and no, but it’s, you know, if you think about the cost involved, and I are with a lot of clients that have done explainer videos in the past, right, where they’re spending seven to $10,000 per video, to make a series of two to three minute explainer videos about their really complicated stuff. And those explainer videos sit on the YouTube page, no one visits, or it sits on their website that no one visits, and they, you know, they’ve really got to push these things out. Alright, so let’s just say that you did five of these things and they cost that’s $50,000 that you spend on explainer videos and most businesses. Yeah, that’s what I have to do that reinvest that money next time, right into podcasting, we can do a lot for 50 grand, I make really, really great sounding show and podcasting, they go back to the episode level, if you’re really thinking about spending seven to $10,000, you can do some really amazing stuff. You can beat every other person in your vertical, if that’s the level of commitment you have in a podcasting space. So yeah, is it work? Absolutely. But are you? Is your competition doing it? Not yet? Not yet. Strike while they’re in hot all those are the metaphors, now’s the time to do it. Because if you wait, okay, your your your customers or excuse me, your competition will do it, too. So there’s there’s definitely benefit in being first mover status. So now’s the time to do it.
Yep, no, that couldn’t agree more. And even at the enterprise level, I think that there’s outside of just driving sales and new customers, I think there’s, there’s a huge opportunity to create culture within the organization, if you’re doing more of an internal one. podcast, an employee once a week, or whatever that looks like, but really telling the stories within each of the departments under the organization, I think would help. I mean, overall retention, which I think you know, every every business would like to have more retention when it comes to their employees. So I think you’re onto something huge going after the enterprise. Like you said, it’s you can try and convince there’s going to be those that get it and I think, yeah, they’re gonna appreciate the when they do move forward with you guys. Absolutely. That’s been awesome. And, you know, before we kind of kind of wrap up didn’t have a question on the personal note saw that you had you made something called the beard diet. I did what what is that?
Whenever that was back in 2001. I had this crazy, I’ll just tell you a shortened version of the story. So I read an article about some guy who overlent I’m not a Catholic, but I at least know what Lent is decided to do nothing but drink beer, read some ancient text and said that’s the thing to do. So we had a friend of his broom up at brown ale a drink that for 40 days, and they lost all this weight. Well, I’m a big fan of craft beer. So I brought this idea to a good friend of mine who happens to be a surgeon and a physician. And I said, I’m thinking about doing this not for lead, because I’m not a Catholic, but I’m thinking about doing it for the month of October. I just drink beer, what do you think? And he says, Wow, there’s not enough protein in beer, you’re gonna start losing muscle mass, but it’s October, why not just put some sausage in. I said, You’re a genius. And so what we decided to do is I’m going to go on this diet, so I went to see him every week. And the entire time, the only food The only calories when my body came from either beer or sausage. That was it for an entire 30 for the entire month of October. And I saw him at a time and every single week we did blood work all the way through, checked my levels, check my weight, everything you know, thinking if something bad happens, I just stopped. I just stopped. Yeah. So at the end of those 30 days, or 31 days, I guess it was um, I’ve lost 15 pounds. My cholesterol cut by a third. My bad cholesterol was down by half my blood serum levels for my liver enzymes never ever blipped above baseline. So I was a slightly buzzed and slightly hungry for the entire month. But still I came out of it. Much more healthy than then I went and I went into it just proving the fact that diets are basically a bunch of garbage. If you just reduce the amount of food that goes down. You can pretty much eat whatever you want. You’ll lose weight.
That is awesome. I’m getting clip this out, send it to my wife and let her know I got a, I got a new diet that I’m partaking in, she will have to
drive you everywhere. So my wife, my son drove me everywhere because you know, no way I’m going to get behind the wheel. I got on fox news and a few other places. And the last thing I want is some cop to pull me over to go. I saw you want to tell about last night? Please come to jail with me say no. So no, no driving for the entire month if you couldn’t do that?
No, that’s great. I’ll have to check that out a bit more. And as we know, there’s been great lots and lots of good tips. And I’ve learned quite a bit. And you know, for those even small business or enterprise level organizations, people that are interested in podcasting, it’s, you know, that they want to venture out not sure if they should do it, what’s I guess the biggest piece of advice that you’d have for them. Don’t do it.
Yet, just remember, the amount of effort you put into it is what you’re going to get out. I have a saying that his podcasts tend to get the audience they deserve. So if you are just doing it kind of for fun, then you’re going to get a fun sized audience. But if you’re serious, and you really invest in it, and you’ve got good reasons for doing so, then great things will come out the other end. This isn’t a fad. This isn’t a passing thing. podcasting is here. It’s a valid way to communicate with the world and you probably should be doing it.
Yep, couldn’t agree more. So if you’re if you’re looking at doing it, reach out to Evo Sure, simpler dot media, get in touch, I’ll be happy to chat with you. Awesome. Any other ways that if someone is interested other than visiting the website, they can they they can get in touch.
So obviously if you already have a podcast and you want to find a way to up your game, and you’re curious what the future of podcasting looks like, highly recommend checking out podcast pontifications.com that’s the website and newsletter and article and podcast that I do four days a week. Like I just today was Episode 125 crazy Wow. When you do it for a week ago up pretty quickly. So podcast quantifications. If you want to think about the future of podcasting, it’s not a how to show it’s a why to show I give you the questions every working podcasters should be asking. And if you want to kind of follow me on the socials, I occasionally do post things about podcasting, but I’m really only on Twitter, at Evo Tara.
Awesome, I really appreciate it and I can’t stress it enough. If you’re a business looking to do it, move forward with it. There’s so much marketing that can be done around it that that really helps achieve those business results that you’re looking for. So Evo, I really appreciate the time and looking forward to watching you guys grow especially as you lean into the enterprise level a bit more. Thanks, Dustin. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
Where To Find Evo Terra
LinkedIn: Evo Terra
On the previous episode of RGR, Dustin talked to Jeff Davenport on the greatest game night in Sierra Vista