Great product isn’t enough to scale your business where you want it to be.| RGR 074

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Overview:

Jono Petrohilos was feeling good about his business. The site for the online fitness service he and his partner created was seeing 4,000 users a month. Many of them were buying.

But Jono admits he didn’t know how those users were finding them and where they were coming from. He hadn’t discovered the power of data analysis. Once he started analyzing the data, he started focusing his SEO strategy to win just a few keywords in his space.

This year, their service is Fitness Australia’s Educator of the Year. But as he looks back, he says having a great product without building audience is like opening a restaurant in the middle of a desert.

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Rise Grind Repeat Podcast
powered by EIC Agency

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Hosted by Dustin Trout
Produced by Andrei Gardiola

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Check out the full video episode at:

Youtube Channel – https://bit.ly/3dlwjnJ
Spotify – https://spoti.fi/2Mgfpe6
Apple Podcasts – https://apple.co/2MiQdUv

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Check out the full video episode on Youtube at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb6B5MP1HtE&

For more information visit our website at https://eic.agency/

We are also on Instagram @EveryImpressionCounts

| Rise Grind Repeat 074 |

00:01

In today’s episode of Rise, Grind, Repeat, we talked to Jono, who is a fitness course creator, talk about what he did to go from the bottom to the top over in Australia. Let’s dive right in. Jono thank you so much for jumping on another episode of Rise, Grind, Repeat. I’m excited because, I mean, we’re working with a couple different course creators. There’s a lot of course creators that are just coming up. And I think there’s so much opportunity because it’s shifting the way that people are learning. And really the whole education industry I in my opinion. So I’m excited to nerd out with it and get some of your insights and how to make some great courses. And but before we get there love to what is it that you actually do and how did you get started on your entrepreneurial journey?

00:46

Yes. Wow, big question. I’ll summarize it. Let me know if you want me to go go deeper, long story short, my background is actually in fitness. Right. So I used to be a fitness trainer. And I used to run a fitness bootcamp. And long story short, I used to suck at it. So I’ll give you some context. context, Dustin, was at a franchise boot camp franchise over here in Australia in New Zealand. And there was 75 different 75 different locations in this franchise. And you were ranked essentially on how good you were right? How many people you had down there, how good your retention was? Now, out of 75 Take a guess what you think I was ranked number one. I wish. 75 I was always dead last but I loved it. You know, I liked running boot camp. I like helping people like fixes sizing, yada, yada, yada. So I wanted to get better at it. Right. And there was a convention at the end of the we’re all different 75 boot camp instructors had to go to, and I didn’t want to go right. Because I’m competitive. You know, I come second. It’s something I’m upset. I come third or something on borderline depression. I came I didn’t want to go there and hang around all these people better than me and make me feel bad. But looking back now, that was a mistake. Right? If you said to me now Hey, go to this place. There’s going to be 75 people better than you. Oh, pay to go there. It’s a mastermind these days. Right.

02:11

Exactly.

02:12

So me I was a bit insecure back then. Right. But when to this read went to the convention anyway and had a meeting with the franchise owners now like Jono, what’s going on you coming? 75th and I was like, I it’s not my fault. You know, his competition. You know, there’s all these gyms opening up 24 hours, budget gyms, you know, every second person’s a personal trainer, yada yada. Also, you know, you guys are the franchise owners, you’re meant to be doing the sales and marketing, you know, all the leads, you’re giving me a crap, you know, I’m getting hardly any leads anyway. And the ones you giving me suck and don’t sign up, you know. And also I let me Sydney, you know, I don’t leave in the Gold Coast or Arizona or any places where it’s, it’s nice weather all year round the rains in the winter, you know, he’s gonna train outside. And this is the moment that changed my life for me, right? That the the franchise owners were essentially like, Hey, Jono, we got good news, or we got bad news. The bad news is as a bootcamp instructor, you suck, you can be 75th.

03:13

But the good news is you can do something about it. Because at the moment, you’re sitting here blaming everyone else but yourself. You know, you’ve you blaming the competition, hey, maybe it’s not the competition’s fault, you suck. Maybe it’s your fault, you haven’t done enough to be better than the competition. You know? You’re blaming our sales and marketing. Hey, did you go out and do any of your own sales and marketing? You know, have you? Maybe it’s not a leadership suck? Maybe it’s your sales skills that suck? You know, have you read any sales books? Have you hired any business coaches, and, and the like the weather channel, you can hire at a school or church or community hall for like 20 bucks, but you’re too busy sitting here blaming everybody else but yourself, you know that you may as well blame the government while you’re at it, you know, make up an excuse again. And then hit home. I was like, You know what, I put up a bit of a fight at this time. I was like, nanana, you know, don’t believe you this. And then they’re like, well, Jonah, you know, you’re coming 75th out of 75. And we own all 75 boot camps. Maybe there’s something we know that you don’t. And I was like, Okay, good point. Anyways, long story short, I dedicated that year of my life to being like, okay, maybe it’s my fault. You know, instead of blaming everyone else, hey, let me let me see if I can actually do something about it. And the first thing I did was attended a course it was a lie and face to face course at the time, I was like, Well, what can I do to get better, you know, I’ll see if I can do a course you know, that’s how I got my qualifications. That’s how I learned stuff at school, yada, yada, yada. So did a course on you know how to run a bit of boot camp. And that’s pretty good. You know, I did it, learn some new ideas, some new drills, some new games, and as a result of that, my retention got a little bit better. And I was like, You know what, this core stuff is pretty good. Maybe I should do another. This learning stuff, is pretty good. You know, you study something and you learn, and you get better at it, and you get more clients and make more money. Maybe I should do another one of these courses. So I did another course and other courses and other course. And I can’t remember the exact number, but I will have done, you know, maybe five, four or five different courses over the that year you know, every couple months. Okay, great. I’ll do a course learn that thing. Move on to the next thing. And it started off very, you know, bootcamp specific, but then I was like, hold on, maybe it’s not even just the boot camp stuff. You know, maybe I should just learn some some general marketing stuff, some general sales stuff, some general business stuff. And yeah, dedicated that that portion of my life to it. And long story short came back 12 months later, that same convention, Dustin, still 75 locations. I was 75. Last year. Now what do you think goes ranked? Let’s go for number one again? Yes. Got it. This second time, killed it. Right. So number one, and that sort of showed me a few things, right. Firstly, and this is these insights, looking back in time, it shows me the the value of education. If I just tried to do it myself without doing those for those five courses? No way. Would I have gone from 75 to one, you know, maybe to 70? You know, if I was like, yeah. So there’s that there. And then from there, like, then I kept growing it, you know, got more members, more clients. I think I grew up from 20 to 100. Wow. Wow. And then start Yeah, so it was pretty good. And, and also my retention, I think went from 30%. Because it was a 12 week challenge, right? So I think I had 20 people and six of them came back to my next one, to actually going to 103%. Right. So because everyone came back, and then a couple people that previously left early, was like, what’s this guy doing? You know, he must be doing good stuff. Now, let’s go back there. So open up a second location. And then other trainers started to ask me, Jono, what are you doing? You know, how are you getting so many people down? what worknc doing? What marketing? Are you doing? What sales he doing? yada, yada, yada. And I would sort of give him a little tip here and there. But then I was like, You know what, these little tips here and there. It’s just like, I’ve done so much education, so much knowledge, I can’t just send you to a blog to learn everything that I know, you know. So I was like, You know what, I think I could put together a course that’s better than anything else out there. Because all the other courses I’ve done it have maybe picked, you know, a certain certain aspect. I feel like if you want to run a Fitness Bootcamp, I know every trick in the book, and I can help you because no matter how bad you are, you can’t be frickin worse than me, you know, I was 75. So even if you’re an absolute idiot, you know, I can help you, I know, I can help these people. So I was like, you know, what, I’m going to put and also because, you know, courses, workshops had such a profound effect on my life, I wanted to sort of put somebody at a tilt take. So other people have the same experience. You know, I said that something I do this course now I’m good at it. So I wanted to put together this this course. Right? And I was like, This is 2014, you know, before the online course sort of boom happened, you know? And I was like, Alright, you know, all these other workshops, all most of these other workshops I went to were face to face, you know, should I put together a face to face workshop. But I was working like a crazy person running boot camp Anyway, you know, I’m like, and run has grown that business as well. I’m like, the last thing I want to do is give up my Sunday to run a workshop. And you know, what, if no one comes, you know, I’ve got to rent out the space free my day. And then, you know, no one comes or worst still one person comes, you know, I’m gonna run a workshop for one person, you know, I can’t think of any more awkward. So I was like, You know what, I wonder if I can do this online. This is 2014. Right before Click Funnels before Kajabi? Before teachable, you know?

08:41

And I was like, Okay, I think so. I got a quote for someone to do my website. You have courses. I didn’t even have a website at the time. Right. And I think I got a quote for someone to create a website put course. So I think there’s like $15k-20k Yeah, I was okay. Yeah. Not gonna do that. If I’m not making zero dollars, and then I was scrolling through Facebook, right. And something came up, you know, here’s an ebook on something. And 2014 when ebooks were actually books, right, yeah. Now ebooks are just an excuse to get your email, right. But But back then they were actually, you know, you charge whatever, you know, $20-50 and it was just like a book, you know, just online. And, you know, downloaded that, and I was like, You know what, like, I’m a technophobe. Right, I suck at technology. But I opened up that ebook, and I was like, hold on, is just a Microsoft Word document saved. I’m like, I second technology, but I’m pretty sure I can press Save As in PDF, you know, so I was like, maybe I can do an ebook, you know. So I’m sat down, you know, created an E book because like an 80 page ebook, right? It was a good goal. It was a course it wasn’t a dream or it was a course right. And then I was like, You know what, I just do looks like a Microsoft Word document, though, you know, let me let me see if I can make it look pretty, you know, put some borders, some headings, you know, so fiddled around with it for maybe a couple days, and I made it look worse, you know, because I changed one thing in the paragraph indents, you know, and I’m like, Man, this is gonna take me, you know, longer to to edit this than it is to actually put the course together, you know? And then I don’t know, someone told me about this thing called Fiverr. And I was like, Okay, let me check out this is Fiverr thing, you know, went on, went on and checked it out. And I’m like, man, there’s this website, where people will do anything for five bucks. The first one I saw, it was a guy that said he would slap himself in the face for $5.

10:49

Did you buy it though? I mean, I did.

10:53

This is crazy. So I bought the $5 to go and slap himself in the face. I was like this guy is an idiot. But then I looked at the views, and he will like 100,000 views on this video. And I’m like, hold on, this guy didn’t send me a personalized slap video, he slapped himself once I put it on,

11:18

or whatever is unlisted, and then just sells it to anyone it for $5. I’m like, man, I was

11:28

struggling if you’re watching this, and you’re struggling in life, just one slap in the face. And that can make you hundreds of thousands of dollars. But anyway, back on topic, you know, there were editors there, that will mean your ebook for five bucks. So I paid one of them five bucks, and they ended and they looked okay. And I was like, okay, but I feel is missing some video content. You know, I feel like it’s okay. But I feel this courses have some video content to better create my message, you know, and I was like, hmm, you know how to videos work online, went on Google again, and discovered this website called YouTube, where it’s free to register and you can upload unlisted videos. So took them unlisted videos, you know, put it on there on the E book with certain links, you know, hey, if you want to watch the video version, watch this yada, yada, yada. Long story short, that that was the course. Right? It was an E book, Microsoft Word documents saved as a PDF with some YouTube links. And, you know, sent up to someone on Fiverr to make it look good. That was the course. I started selling it, you know, put it on the fitness Australia, personal trainers website or whatever. And, you know, had someone buy it. And I was like, I remember I got their feedback, right. And I was so scared. I was like, because I think you sold about 200 bucks. I think we saw that cost. So back in 2014. I was like, is this person just gonna be like, Man, you sold me air, you know, you sold Microsoft document, you know, I want a refund on my money back. It took me like 5-10 minutes to open this document, you know, muster up the courage for the feedback. But then the feedback was really good. I was like, hey, amazing course you know, you’ve covered every trick in the book has made it easy, there’s no fluff, yada, yada, yada, really, really good. You know, and then got a few more bits of feedback. And then I was like, okay, you know, this online course side of things. I’m actually not that bad at it. You know, let me let me get it out there. But anyway, that’s it. I know. I said I’d cut it short. But I think I spent 20 minutes blabbing on but that’s essentially my background I was in the fitness industry ran a fitness bootcamp sucked at it then was successful at it found out how to help other people be successful at it, put an online course together to help your trainers do that. And then long story short, that online course business started to grow and grow and grow, build a following but more courses yada, yada, yada. So got any out of that fitness side of things, I focused 100% on creating online courses for the fitness professionals, that’s gone really, really well. Now. I think I’ve got 30-40 different courses 100 and 200 sales a month. And now I’m just actually and it’s pretty much on autopilot as well, you know, I’ve got some systems in place, hired hired a team now. And you know, I’m just sort of building a community for other online course creators, you know, because I just love that space now that I love the fitness space. But long story short, that’s not long story short, long story.

14:14

No, that’s awesome. There’s a lot to unpack there. And I think that’s it’s an awesome journey. I think there’s a lot of people that that really focus on the the blame game and it’s all it’s so easy to do, because it’s easy to point a finger. People that are starting to realize that I mean, how did you identify or where to move forward with? Is it sales as a marketing? How did what was that process like to sit down and go, this is what I need to work on. That’s gonna elevate my business quicker than anything else. Was it just trial and error or how did you go about that

14:45

question, just don’t wait. I started General, and then just got more specific. So like, the first course I did was just how to run a bit of boot camp right there I participated in. I was able to do that and run it get a boot camp. And then I could look at my business and be like, Okay, well, hold on, you know, I’m getting it. I’m good at keeping people in here. If I get someone in here, and my retention is good, that’s not the issue anymore. How can I get more people in? Right? So it’s not okay, well, what can I do to get more people in? Let me do a marketing course. You know, that’s how I’m going to get more people in. So I will do a marketing course. And then I’ll get more people in. And then from there, I’ve sort of got a few different avenues, right? It might be like, Okay, well, hold on, you know, I’ve got a whole people coming out and people coming in, but none of them are signing up, you know, maybe you got to work on my sales. Let me go in and do a sales calls there, because sales course there, right. But even there, I might get more in depth and might be like, Alright, cool. Hey, all the sales I’m making are only if I get on the phone and call someone, no one’s signing up via email. So let me go and do a course on email marketing, right? And then I’ll get specific in that. And then I might go in the email marketing course and be like, hey, my emails are good. People are opening them. But no one’s actually buying, you know, maybe I need to do a course on landing pages, right? How can I make a better landing page, you know, then I might go on the do a course on on landing pages, right? And then when I do that course, on landing pages, might be like, Okay, well, hey, the better your copies, the better your landing pages, let me go and do a course on copyright. Right? But I start macro. And look at what I’m doing macro, and then have finer distinctions as I go on.

16:20

Does that make sense? Oh, 100%. And I mean, I’m a huge data analytics nerd. And it sounds like I mean, that’s what you’re really focusing on? I mean, how important has data and analytics been to identifying where those gaps in your business are? And what it’s going to take? Or what you need to reverse engineer to fill those gaps? I mean, is that

16:37

it’s everything because without that, you just don’t know, right? And and let me think of an example, because I know we we

16:45

we originally connected because I was asking some questions about

16:48

YouTube ads right now.

16:49

And let me think of a best way to exam this. So I didn’t have Google Analytics set up on my website for ages. Right? Yeah, because of that. And look, there’s a few things that I did do most of my sales via, you know, Click Funnels and SIM card wiring my marketing, Facebook ads, but still, I had a website that was getting, you know, three 4000 hits a month, or users a month, you know, and they were buying, but I just couldn’t, but I didn’t, because I didn’t have it set up. I didn’t know what courses they were buying. I didn’t know where they were coming from. I didn’t know if they’re wanting from my email or from the website. So I just I couldn’t scale from there. But say, as soon as I implemented Google Analytics, then I can reverse engineer and I can be like, Alright, cool. You know, here’s what’s happening here? And then even like I was mucking around with with Google Ads before, right? And, and that’s even how I got into YouTube ads. But let’s just say we’re looking at Google ads, right? When I look at it, I’m like, Alright, cool. We are here the keywords. What’s getting traffic? Actually, no, let me go back. No, okay. I’ll show you a better story, actually. So I, early in my entrepreneurial career, I spent a lot of time just Facebook, Instagram sales calls, email marketing, you know, I sort of ignored the Google world, you know. And I had a, I hired a company to do my SEO, and they’d send me over a report every month, you know, hey, here’s the list of 10 keywords that you wanted to rank in? Here’s what you’re ranked in, you know, on on Google, right. And it was always in the top five. I was like, okay, it’s pretty good, you know. And then once I got a bit more sophisticated with my, with my tracking, and with my analysis, I was I downloaded a tool keywords everywhere. I mean, you’re familiar with that tool? What t does? Oh,

18:29

yeah. I came up on a webinar this morning, actually. So yeah, familiar with it.

18:33

Awesome. Cool. So I feel is design in a nutshell, it just shows you the words people are searching searching for simplified version. And I was like, You know what, it’s all well, and good for me to be ranked number one, in, you know, bootcamp cc courses online, in Australia. But hold on, when I do a search on keywords everywhere. No one’s freaking searching for that term. Like hold I’m paying this SEO agency, like, you know, 800 Australian dollars a month. And here I’m getting ranking number one, but he number in words

19:03

that no one’s freaking searching for.

19:06

So once I was able to figure that out, then I could sort of reverse engineer and be like, Alright, cool. You know, he’s essentially six keywords that people in my space are searching for. If I can just win the get, and there’s four competitors, whenever you type in these words, this is for people slow up and down this games, all I care about, are these six keywords, if you can give me if I can get ranked number one on these six keywords. It would just be ridiculous from where I grew up from there. Right. So that’s just I guess, a little story there where if I didn’t go and do that research, know those numbers. I’m just

19:40

you’re gone.

19:41

you know, I absolutely love that is literally music to my ears. Because I mean, even from a content creation perspective, there’s a lot of content being created. That’s like, I think this is important and you’re putting it out there but there’s no demand or no one looking for it. And to me, it’s reverse engineering, what people are actually searching for, what questions are they asking? That’s what fuels your content creation allows you to get in front of that audience that you’re wanting to get in front of

20:05

that said, and just Google, Google Ads, and Google Analytics is just so good for reverse engineering. That’s what I was doing this morning. I was okay. Let me go in, because I wanted to improve my so let’s just say Google ads, right? Yep. You’ve got an ad, you search your keywords, you know, there’s, that’s I guess, the first step, but people actually searching for that, right. But now if people are searching for that, are they clicking through to my website all well, and good if I’m getting impressions, but if no one’s clicking through, what’s the frickin point right now, I think the steps further from that happen to get them to buy yada yada, yada, but even even that there, and I was like, there was certain keywords that, that were good keywords. Right. But they were just getting a low click through rate. And, and even limiting how to explain this with a simplified way. So yeah, all right. Cool. So let’s just say for example, I had like, you know, four or five different keywords that I was targeting, in a nutshell, almost like competitors, not quite but simplified version. They like the bodies, right? So my courses are registered with fitness Australia, and also with another company called Fit Wreck. Right? Now, I was showing the same ad to both of those, the both of those two people’s audience, but they hate each other. You know, it’s like, Yeah, I don’t know how to explain it. But like, if you’re ready to suey, fitness Australia, you hate Fit Wreck, if you’re a fitness, and I was showing them those same ads, then I’m like, No wonder my frickin click through rate is is low. Right? Let me show the Fit Wreck people a specific ad that says, Hey, are you a registered trainer? You know, are you a fitness Australia, registered trainer, there’s different language, yada, yada, yada. But I also want to touch on your point of why validation, because from a cost creation side of things, this is like the biggest mistake I see people make in the course creation side of things is Yeah, they good at what they do. You know, they’ll create a course. And the course is probably awesome. I mean, way better than what I could do. But it doesn’t sell. Right. And maybe it’s because of your sales and marketing, maybe. But a lot of the time, it’s just because it’s a bad idea, or not a bad idea. It’s um, you haven’t portrayed the idea in the way that the market wants? Yeah, right. And the only way to do that, what we keep saying the course credit, well, this is validating your course, right? Yep. And it’s like, before you create your course, actually sell it, you know, don’t go and create a 10 module course and try and sell it for 1000 bucks, trade a 10 week boot camp, you know, create a 10 week workshop or whatever, five weeks, you know, create a five week workshop, where you deliver it, you deliver the content every week for five weeks, right? And then you pre sell that, if you pre sell that, and nobody buys it, Hey, thank God, you didn’t create the course, taken you years or months to create it, then you can’t sell it. And then it may be a sales and marketing thing. But it may also just be a validation side of things. Right? Yeah. Whereas if you’re like, cool, I’m going to pre sell this cool couple people have bought it. There’s a market there. Now I can go off and scale it.

23:00

No, I love that. It’s funny that you mentioned that it’s actually came up in the last podcast and the validation point. And I think because we have the tools that are access between Google Ads, Facebook, I mean, creating websites mean, all like that. I think there’s a lot of things that happen where it’s, Oh, I got this sweet idea. I’m gonna pour all this time into it. But yet, maybe someone might not even buy it. And I think that’s a huge missing piece to what a lot of people go to market with. It’s a very good insight. One question I have is what I’m interested in. So I started out working with Google about eight years ago. And that’s how I got in digital marketing, educating small businesses on Google Ads, AdWords at the time. Right now we’re going through everyone is so bullish on Facebook and Instagram. How much of a missed opportunity is the Google platform it for? For most marketers knowing that you know, most people are jumping on the Facebook and Instagram bandwagon? Have you seen better results from one channel to the other? Or is it the symbiosis between the two or?

23:55

Yeah, good question. So, you know, I might eve say it’s a tough lot, because I use them slightly differently. So I use Facebook, for, let me to explain this. So I use Facebook and Instagram, mainly for lead generation and then a sale is almost a bonus. Right? Yeah, so all throw a Facebook Ad out, which is like, Hey, you know, you want to do this course, you’re interested in this cause yada yada yada, you know, click here to learn more, that person clicks there, you know, enters their details, goes through the funnel, yada, yada, yada, all maybe close 10-20% up front, right? So and it’s usually a break a little bit better than a breakeven don’t make a huge amount of dollars up front on Facebook, you know, by is really, really good to grow the list. Now, Google, I use slightly different Google I just use for direct sales, because I know the keywords that people type in, that are looking to buy right now. Right. So roughly speaking steps. So I think my website is free. Also, because if I’m selling via Google, it’s why on my website, if I’m selling via Facebook, Instagram, it’s why I Click Funnels long story short, right? So I think my website stats about $25,000 per month on core sales, either from SEO or Google ads, or referral. Yeah. But that day, I think my and that’s off about a $3,000 spend on Google ads. It’s not bad, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but a lot of it is Seo as well. Right. And it’s not like 3000 Google ads. Yeah. 25 Berridge, it’s SEO referrals at Facebook. I think he’s about 10,000. And I put probably bit more in I put about $5,000 in there. Right. So in terms of upfront, like, Google is just more profitable for me upfront. Because, again, it’s hard for me to judge right, because I just, I mean, the online course base, and I know that in my space, there’s people searching for courses that want to buy courses. Yeah, you know, if you go in there, and you type in, you know, as either, you know, renew my fitness, Australia registration, or, you know, cc courses for personal trainers, you’re only typing that in, because you want to buy a course right now, you know, I don’t use Google so much for lead generation and blogs, and that sort of thing. It’s more, I targeted for people that are ready to buy right now. So I think that Google traffic is just a lot hotter to people that want to buy right now. And the other thing, I like it Oh, wait, we talked in Google ads, or SEO, or both.

26:34

I mean, I was more on the Google ads. The paid side.

26:37

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Cool. So yeah, so. And the other thing with Google Ads is, it’s just so easy to jump the queue, Brian, like I can, because another thing, also, my courses are all based in Australia at the moment, right? Yep. And I want to expand to the USA. But to do that, now I’m gonna have to change the US dollars coming up to say instead of fitness, Australia, cc’s, it’s, you know, NASA registered CU’s, there’s just all these little bits and pieces, right? And unlike me, it’s gonna take me forever if I put a website and same thing without validating it out. But also hold on, I can just put together a landing page, throw a few dollars on Google Ads, and see what happens. Yep. You know, and if no one clicks, I don’t even get charged. Yeah, so I think there the advantages there, I feel like Google ads, you can target people who are ready to buy right now. Whereas Facebook, you got always disrupt that person, right? Yeah, I’m gonna have a headline to disrupt them and images, me naked, to disrupt them, you know, like, there’s so many different, different things there. Whereas Google, it’s like, someone’s just typing into buy that thing. As long as I can match that keyword, you know, and I know there’s a keyword that’s getting traffic and that people are interested in and we’ve done a lot of competition. Cool, I can target that person they’re gonna buy right now, if they buy great, I win. If they don’t click on I’m not charged, so it’s a good win win.

28:04

Absolutely, no. And I love how you use the different channels for different objectives. I mean, that’s where it’s all at. And I mean, Facebook, I mean, the the cost per clicks, I mean, are much cheaper than then Google search. And really, that’s, that’s where I think a ton of of whitespaces is use use certain channels for prospecting, driving quality traffic, and then retarget them on on search. I love your approach on that aspect. But getting outside of the advertising a little bit, just education courses in general, not even for fitness or anything like that. I mean, you know, here in the US, it seems like the education system hasn’t really changed in 80 years. I mean, it’s, I, I before this, when this was a side hustle, I was working at a college here in the teachers college. And that’s really what our marketing campaign was, is we were focused on, we’re gonna try and change the education system, because you look at a cell phone, or you look at a phone, it’s changed quite a bit over 80 years, you look, you’ll get everything, there’s been so much evolution, do you think that online courses are going to change just the education industry as a whole?

29:07

That’s a good question. So I think it’s definitely going to be a different option, right? Because, like, same over here in Australia, right? Like the thing the school system hasn’t changed in so many ways. And it’s, you know, it’s created for for a society that’s changed, you know, like, it’s sort of learning things in school that you’re not going to need in school, you know, so saying there so I think we’re the online course space is gonna fit in, I think there’s a few things going on, I think the major thing is going to change is just a different option. Right? So let’s say previously, you know, if I wanted to go and learn marketing, man, the decision was, you know, I’m gonna have to go and do a four year university degree in marketing, you know, whereas now, I could go on Udemy and do a Facebook ads course for $20 bucks, and it would still be pretty good. Yeah, I’d be dead. Probably better. You know, think back that that $20 Udemy course on Facebook ads than anything that’s going to be taught in University at the moment? Because it’s just so much quicker, right?

30:08

Yep. So I think

30:09

I think that’ll be the change there? Well, I think it’ll give people a different option. It’s like, hey, I want to learn marketing, alright, cool, I don’t necessarily need to go and do, you know, a university degree, a college diploma, you know, anything like that, there’s going to be different options there. I think that’s number one. And then I think number two is going to be the speed of it is going to be quicker, because over here in Australia, traditional education, like it’s going to be a year before you can change something, you know, if you have one module, you’ve got to, you know, put it into the government and give this request and yada, yada, yada, I could create an online course this weekend, I wanted to get it and get it out there. You know. So that’s, that’s where I think that space will change. I think what also will happen a little bit, though, is, I think there will be a restaurant and everyone sort of being like, Oh, you know, online courses, everyone’s got one, I’m going to have one. And he has a lot of marketing on Facebook, you know, make six figures a month online courses, and, you know, charge $2 for your online course. I think there will be a point. At the moment, I think it’s an easy space, right? Because if you’ve got a cause just sort of see as an expert, right, this person’s got a course, they’ve got a link in their bio that says marketer, they must know what they’re talking about. You know, I think that’s that’s what can happen at the moment. But I think there will be, you know, in the next sort of couple months, maybe years that I think that standard will lift up a little bit, there were I think a few people will get ripped off by someone that, you know, puts together a course that doesn’t quite know what they’re doing, because it’s not regulated. So yeah, that’s where I see it going in the future. Those two things there.

31:46

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it sounds more like a it’s a compliment rather than a replacing the current education system. And I think that’s what it is, everyone has different things that they want to learn at different speeds and different ways that that they intake, the education, I think, I think you hit the nail on the head that it’s going to be more of a compliment rather than a replacement. So agree when it comes to, you know, creating, creating these courses? I mean, it It sounds like you just put in the work and figured it out, you know, other people’s other people that are creating courses, what are the biggest? I guess, not downfalls, but areas of opportunity that are being missed? When it comes to their core course creation?

32:25

Yes. Awesome. Okay, cool. So good question. I think the best way to answer that. So I think that there’s a few common mistakes that that people make, I think are all answered that way, let me know if this answers the question. If not, we’ll go deeper. So yeah, two common mistakes people make. Number one is they’ll spend a heap of time on the course platform, how do I get kajabi? Do I use Click Funnels? Do I use Teachable Thinkific, Udemy, Member Vault? WordPress LearnDash. You know, like, there’s just so many different options there. And a lot of people get caught up, you know, okay, which which platform should I choose? And that’s like, the least of your worries, you know, I’ve changed heaps of them over the years, you know, and they’ve all got advantages, disadvantages, and, and it sort of depends on your situation as well, right? Some may work slightly better, better for you. But long story short, like, especially starting off, any of them will work. And there’s free options as well. So it’s even best off just to instead of spending you know, a week researching Thinkific, and then a week researching, teachable, and then a week, researching Kajabi, like, just pick one and then spend two or three weeks sales and marketing your course. Right. And I think that’s the that’s that’s one thing there. Another thing is building your audience, right? So a lot of course creators think, right, you know, I’ve put this course together, it’s an awesome course. You know, it’s gonna sell itself. And I know you’re a sales and marketing guy, Dustin, you know, things don’t don’t really sell themselves. It’s in the advanced the way that I sort of explain it as well, is probably saying, Do you have a desert in Arizona?

34:01

Oh, we’re in the middle of the desert.

34:04

Awesome. Cool. So let’s say right in the middle of the desert, right? where no one’s there’s no roads, there’s there’s nothing there. It’s just a desert like middle of Australia and middle of Arizona. Right? If you opened up a restaurant there where there’s no traffic, no one goes, is it gonna make any sales?

34:22

No freakin

34:25

way. And if you don’t tell anyone about No way, you know, so and that’s what a lot of online course creators do. Their websites, the desert, you know, it’s on page nine of Google. That’s what that was in the desert. Right? So you know, it is not gonna happen. And this is also common as well, I see it if someone’s really good at what they do. If someone’s really good at what they do. They often think that because of what they’re going to do, and it’s because they’re good at what they do, they don’t have to do the sales and marketing. And it just doesn’t work like that. You know, I always find if you’re not as good at what you do, you always value the sales and marketing A bit more, because you’re like, Well, I’m not the best in the world. So I better make sure I’m good at sales and marketing, right? So and this is this is where it’s tough because you think, okay, someone’s good at what they do, they shouldn’t be able to sell more stuff, but not if it’s not marketed properly, right.

35:12

So

35:15

that’s the other common thing there is, Hey, if you’re putting together a course, that’s fine, but there’s a few different things. They’re either saying, Hey, you know, before I put this course, together, I’m going to build my audience. And I’m going to rapidly build my audience, right? Or while I’m putting this course together, I’m going to rapidly build my audience, right? Oh, yeah, I’m going to this course together. But I know I’m not going to make six figures in my first month, just because I have a course I’ve got it there. But I’m going to rapidly build my audience. And I think I might sell a few as I go. But I know that it all comes down to my audience, because my opinion, half of half of selling your online courses is just a math equation.

35:53

Everything selling I feel is a mathy once you can reverse that, what gets someone interested won’t get someone to lead what close that? And it’s just, it’s a funnel. I hate saying it’s so cliche as a marketer, but it’s a funnel, and how do you tweak each little next phase to the funnel and, and it’s just a math equation, you want 100 new clients and a new customer cost this much. It costs you this much to get that many, and it’s all math

36:16

bang on and the way I look at it, there’s an old internet marketing cliche, and I know it’s not 100% true, but it’s not a bad indication, especially for course creators. Have you heard about the dollar? Like each email subscriber should bring you in about $1 a month? Have you heard that one Dustin? I have not heard that one? Okay, cool. So I think I think Ryan Deiss or digital marketer, I heard it from them a few years ago as an indication, right? There’s obviously exceptions, but even just an indication, you know, if you want to make $10,000 a month selling online courses to your email list, you probably do need 10,000 emails. So it’s like, Alright, cool. You know, I want to make $10,000 a month, I need 10,000 emails. Okay. What can I do to get 10,000 emails? Okay, man, you know, 500 emails. Okay, cool. You know, I should aim to make $500 a month on this, okay? If I’m not making $500 a month, what the hell’s wrong with my sales, you know, isn’t my pages my emails, yada, yada, yada. But it’s essentially that and then even if it’s not that, it’s just again, a numbers game. So I call every hundred emails I get every hundred people in my list, I make one sale. Okay, cool. You know, I’ve got a couple options. How can I get another hundred people on my list to make another sale? or How can I make my, my landing page or my sales strategies better? So I close to out of 100? You know, either way, it’s just a math game, right?

37:32

Yep. No, I literally music to my ears. So going back to the there is an opportunity. I couldn’t agree with you on that first point analysis paralysis. It’s amazing how much that that that not getting the market quick enough. Just prevent, it creates that ceiling. And it’s amazing how many entrepreneurs deal with that. Would love to get into that. But the second piece that you said is building that audience is I think that’s something that everyone understands and can agree with. You know, you mentioned we’re showing up on page 10 of Google, it’s, I might not have budget, I might not have budget to run Google ads or Facebook ads. How would one go about building that audience if they don’t necessarily have the budget?

38:09

Awesome. Love that question. So first thing I’d recommend doing it, are you

38:12

a Click Funnels fan at all a Dustin?

38:14

I don’t I we could basically make the funnel and the whole journey on WordPress and landing pages. And here’s the here’s the initial page, click here. I mean, we could do it all in WordPress and don’t have to pay the monthly fee and all that type of stuff. But I do see the value in it. For sure.

38:29

Cool. Awesome. Cool. I’m not even clickfunnels like I don’t even I probably could get away without using it. I’m just lazy and it’s just it’s more of a pain in the ass to to leave than anything. But I’m a huge fan of Russell Brunson. And to be honest, that’s probably why I stay on clickfunnels just because I like Russell Brunson. Right. And he’s got his latest book is called Traffic Secrets. And I have you read that by any

38:54

chance? I have not. I’ve heard of it, though.

38:56

Okay, yeah. So I think that’s the best marketing book I’ve ever read. And I think I’ve paid $5,000 for courses before, there hadn’t been as good as this book that he sells for $7 plus shipping or whatever it is, right. Yeah. So but also with that book, I treat it like a textbook. You can read it in a week or whatever. But it’s more about Okay, let me read and, and implement this strategy. And simplified version, let me think, because I’m just gonna essentially simplify his strategies, because I think they’re the best. That’s what I implemented as well. So long story short, to get how to explain this. Cool. So there’s obviously free free traffic and paid traffic, right. And you know, paid traffic is going to cost money. advantage of paid traffic is it’s quicker you don’t get in front of people right now. disadvantage is it costs money, right? So you may not have money. So we’re essentially looking at free strategies. And the goal is to build that list. So I think that’s the first sort of thing. It’s like, cool. My goal is to build that list. It’s not just to have a lot of followers on Instagram. It’s not just have a lot of views on YouTube. It is to build my list, right? So we’re using organic social media to build your list. Now the way I look at it, you got a few different options, right? You can either move into, you can use, like the search type things, where it’s like, Hey, I can write a blog and, you know, SEO optimize my website I can get on YouTube and you know, get people to search me there, I can get on Pinterest, get people to search me there. Even Udemy as well, you know, get me get people to search me there. The other thing with a lot of that stuff is it is more of a long term game, right? It’s not like you can create a YouTube video today. And you can have a million followers tomorrow, right? You may in a year or two, you know, I checked them. I’m not even a YouTuber, you know, but I checked my stats yesterday, just with a, I was having a chat with someone. There’s one video I made two years ago, it’s still coming up high on YouTube, it’s got like 13,000 views, you know, I’ve only got a few thousand followers on YouTube, but it’s got that there. So he’s one of those things, if you planted there, it he’s gonna, you know, grow a tree later on. But I think in terms of short term, like right now, I think your your best opportunities, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook, because they’re all very direct message based and friend request based spend will speak about a few different I’ll speak about into two different ways. But simplified version, like, depending on your market, it’s very easy just to find them, and connect with them on any of those three platforms, right, even, I’ll use me as an example with fitness on how I could do it. And hopefully, people listening can reverse engineer with this sort of thing here, right? So my target market is personal trainers, Fitness Trainers, right? That there, let’s say I’m going to do it on LinkedIn, I could literally just go into LinkedIn, and type in job title, personal trainers, and then every personal trainer on LinkedIn, will be there, I can just simply however I do it, but let’s just say I say Right, I’m gonna, you know, every morning, wake up, and I’m just going to friend or connect with 20 people on 20 personal trainers on LinkedIn every single day. And then I’m going to send some DMS with those people on LinkedIn, we’ll speak about the DM strategy in a sec, but just even simplified version there, right? That like it, I should never ever run out of leaves on LinkedIn, Linkedin is obviously easier if you target a specific job title, right, because that’s mainly what it’s about. But there’s ways around it and you can, you know, figure out ways around it. But say for me, like anyone that targets a specific job title like mad, you’re, it’s unlimited, the amount of leads you can get on LinkedIn, or on you literally just type in the job title. And then every single person that has that job title will come up, you friend review connect with them, you go from there, right? And same and that’s what LinkedIn is designed for. Because you can do that on Facebook and Instagram. And I’ll share some strategies in a sec. But you got to be careful because Facebook and Instagram aren’t really designed to call dm strangers, right? You can get away with it. There’s ways where it’s appropriate. But you do need to be careful. Whereas LinkedIn, the platform is designed to call the strangers you know, so there’s

42:57

no dramas there. Same sort of thing on Instagram, right? I could go onto Instagram. And I could do this a few different ways. I could just go to the hashtags. And I could type in hashtag personal trainer life. Anyone that uses that hashtag personal trainer, life is a personal trainer. Right now I can go on there. I can like a few of their photos like and, you know, comment on a few things. I can follow them. Maybe they follow me back, we start a conversation there. Hey, thanks for the follow. What do you do yada yada, yada? Maybe I don’t even need to follow or maybe I can send them a cold dm I find Instagram is sort of medium for a cold dm. Yeah. Which if that person has their platform on public, there’s no harm in sending a DM you know, and if they don’t do it, well, why have you got your platform? Why have you not done appreciate that? Well, why don’t you put before one private then your public? Put it on private if you don’t want people dming? You you know because Instagram is about getting followers, right? And so you can do it via hashtags. You can also do it via other accounts. Right? So my courses are registered with fitness Australia, I could go on the fitness Australia Instagram account, I can see who follows them. And then I can use that same process. You know, I can dm their followers. Hey, what’s happening? I see you follow fitness Australia, Europe, fitness Australia. Is the trainer too. Awesome. Yeah, I could have a conversation from there, right? I might just like and comment on a few of their photos, yada yada, yada. Or I could even search via location as well, you know, in a few different ways. Let’s say me, there’s a big fitness convention in Australia every only for personal trainers called file x. I could go to the File x, I could choose checked in at file x this he right, great, you know, and get down in the DM from that day. Right? Facebook, you probably need to be the most careful on because they’re the ones that restrict the most of that, right. There’s two sort of ways you can do it with Facebook. You can call dm on Facebook, but you got to be careful for a few different reasons. Because not everyone likes a lot of people use Facebook just for their friends and family. Right. You know, Dustin, we probably don’t care where market is right. You know, yes, your average person may not be As open to that as we are, so you know, there may not appreciate that. So you got to be careful. But you can friend request first, you know, you can find people that are in your, your, your ideal client, you can friend request them if they friend request you back great, you know that sort of gives you permission to start the conversation up there. If not totally okay. You just don’t don’t connect with him. But also on Facebook, you’ve got Facebook groups, right, that’s me and Dustin connected, actually. And I would say Facebook groups is probably my favorite, because you’ve already got an audience there. Right? You’ve already got an audience there of people that are interested in what you’re interested in. Now, I’m not saying go and just see who’s in your there and request them and call them them. You may be able to do that in some circumstances. But what can often work better if it’s an engaged group, right? And you’ve got people asking questions, if you can go and answer those questions, and then send that person a DM, then it’s a bit better. Now instead of me just send in a cold dm, I might like an answer to their questions. And with any Wi Fi friend requests them and chat with them there. I might not say straight away, hey, here’s my freebies, my facebook group, yada, yada, yada. I might just keep them on my friend list for a couple weeks, like a few of the photos comment on a few of their photos. And then you know, few weeks later, Might just hit him up. Hey, Dustin, what’s happening? He was actually his facebook group. What is he right in there? Did you want to join? Right, but I love it. That’s an overview that you want me to get deeper in that or should we move on?

46:28

Yeah, keep going. I love it. Okay.

46:30

Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. So from there, right? Because you dm someone. Okay, great. What the hell does that mean? You know, great, you got a DM you maybe got a follower or a friend.

46:40

I like the Facebook

46:41

group strategy. So I’m a Facebook group guy, right? A few reasons why? Firstly, because I feel if you’ve got a Facebook group, you’ve got a an interactive community. And I’m comparing two things. Like I think you either need to get this person on your email list, or you need to get them in your Facebook group. But if you get them in your Facebook group, your first question is, what’s your email anyway? Right. So and also you get to run regular webinars and freebies, whatever your group anyway. So once someone’s in your group, even if you don’t get their email address straight away, you’re going to get it. Most people will give it to you straight away, but if not, you’ll get it down the track, right. But I like the Facebook group, because it’s less work for me on an email list, I need to consistently email right and don’t get me wrong, I do that. But on a Facebook group, there’s community there, right, that is I’m getting value from other people posting and other people commenting. It’s not just someone asking me a question someone posts on my Facebook group, he’ll answer, but so 10-20 other people, and the value for the person in the group, you know, they posed a question, or my opinion is you want your Facebook group to be better than Google, you want someone to post a question in your Facebook group, and they get more answers than what Google will give it right. That’s my sort of goal there. And then also, you get a bit of positioning, you know, because there’s going to be other people hitting your page on Oh, I see you got a Facebook group. Do you mind if I do a post in there promoting this thing? Or, you know, do you want to do some sort of collaboration? So now, you know, these people are asking me for favors, right? So I can leverage it. If I’ve just got an email, there’s no one knows. I’m gonna have the biggest email list in the world. No one knows. Yeah, you know, but a Facebook group, the numbers are there, you know, the engagement is there. So, and that’s basically my strategy when going in the cold dm, you know, whether it’s LinkedIn, or whether it’s instagram, or whether it’s Facebook, because I feel it’s a nicer first step than saying, Give me your email address. Again, don’t get me wrong. And especially when starting off, I think the email address is probably better, because you want to have a few people before you start a Facebook group. Right. But you know, it’s just like, it’s very easy to start a conversation. Let’s say I’m on Instagram, and I find a personal trainer. I like a few of their photos. You know, hey, Dustin, what’s happening? You know, just checking out your Instagram. You’re a personal trainer from from Arizona, right? Oh, sweet how long you’ve been doing that? What do you do bootcamp online? Oh, cool. Cool. Cool. Hey, by the way, now, I’ve actually got this Facebook group is all personal trainers in there. Everyone’s super supportive. We all share tips ideas. Looks like you’ve been in the industry for a few years. I think you could you could definitely give some value in that group. Would you want to join? And it’s just so much less sleazy. Right.

49:07

Exactly. Yeah. Hundred

49:10

percent. That’s, yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s, um, my recommendation there. There’s a few. And there’s a few things and don’t get me wrong. This is still a slow strategy right now. Yeah. And there’s different ways you can speed it up and you know, friend requests more people, the more the quicker you do it, the more dangerous it is as well, right? So it’s got to sort of balance that out. The one thing that I’ve done a couple of things that I’ve found work really well, in terms of doing it quick, but free as well, is collaborations. Right? Okay. If you can get in front of someone that already has your audience. That’s the biggest win, because let’s look at it logically. Right? Let’s say someone’s got a Facebook group with I don’t know, 1000 people, right? I might spend three months, you know, interacting in that Facebook group and adding people and sending DMS and, you know, I might be Get 10, 20 maybe 30 people in my group from doing that right out of the thousand in there. However, if I can do some sort of joint venture with the owner of the group, I might get 100 200 300 people in m&a. Right? And that’s, that’s, that’s the big thing that got me started, right, I was in this Facebook group to grow my new Facebook group for online course creators, there was another similar group, similar people, you know, friend requested the owner, you know, basically kissed his butt, you know, for a few months. Anyway, due to collaboration with him, he had about 5000 people in the group at that stage, it was essentially like, I was going to run a webinar, teaching copywriting to his audience, right. And the way he set it up was essentially, the leads go to me, and then we split the sales 50/50. Right. So I set up the landing page and all that he promotes it to his list, right? they opt into to my list, any sales we make we split 50/50 I think I got 200 leads in a day. Wow. From from? Yeah, because he’s got 60,000 people on his, you know, to a free webinar, why will they not opt in there, you know, and for me to get 200 people by cold dming and friend requesting, man, it’s gonna take me months. And don’t get me wrong, I think you need to do both, right? Because Because you can’t rely on a collaboration because you don’t know when it’s going to come. And at least when it comes, you’ve got something to offer. And you know, where it’s got, you know, a few hundred people in my facebook group at least. So there’s, you’ve got something to offer there, right. But even that with the collaboration, what I find works well there because if you just call them someone and ask them to collaborate with you, like, why would they do that in busy enough trying to sell their own? Right? Why are they going to sell your thing out of the goodness of their heart, you know, so And look, there may be ways where they want what you’ve gone and made an offer and yada yada, yada. But I find there’s there’s two things there. Firstly, it’s about relationship. Right? I don’t care who you are, if I don’t like you, I’m looking to plug your stuff. And then secondly, it’s got to be a win win as well, even if I like you. Right, but you’re selling let’s just say there’s a few things. Let’s say you’re selling a course for 100 bucks. And I’m selling a course for and I’ve got no and it’s a 50/50 split, or I’ve got a course for 500 bucks, and it’s 100% my way, why would I promote your one? I love you. But you know, why would I you know, unless I know it will sell 10 times as much then I will do it right. But I think it’s those two teams. And I find the best way to start that relationship is actually what we’re doing now with a podcast, Dustin. Right. Because it’s not sleazy, you know, and let’s say now, so I’m on Dustin’s podcast at the moment, I always feel like I owe him a favor. You know, he’s, he’s got me on his podcast, you know, he’s promoting it to his people here, I might get some followers, I need to do somebody helping me out to get out of debt. If he says to me, I emails awesome. Who am I and if you share it with your people, as well, of course, I’m gonna do it, you know, this

49:41

guy got me on his podcast and

52:02

got me in front of his people, you know, so it’s like, and I find this it’s a good way to test the relationship, you know, Dustin might, you kno he might think I’m a dick, and he won’t be like, I’m not promoting you stuff every I’m never gonna promote his stuff. But at least you know, you know, you know, that podcast, you know, it starts the relationship. And then it’s easy to hit that personnel, you know, it, maybe if it’s not a share, Dustin could eat me up in a couple weeks time, whatever. Now we connected on social, he likes a few of my photos, laughs a few of my jokes or whatever, you know. And then in a few weeks time, it’s appropriate for him to hit me up and say, Hey, man, awesome podcast, you had, hey, I’m growing this Facebook group. It’s the you know, marketing people want to get better at marketing. You want to promote it to your people. I want to say yes, you know, I might say no.

53:41

It’s awkward, because

53:44

let’s just say hypothetically, it’s person A person B, right?

53:49

The fact that, you know, we’ve now got a relationship means it’s appropriate to ask a favor. If you just slide up cold and in someone’s dm and say, Hey, promote my stuff. They’re not gonna do it, you know. So, yeah, I think that’s, that’s long story short, I think if you’re doing it no budget, you’ve essentially got a few different options. You can do it on the YouTube Udemy Google way, but just not won’t give you results straightaway. But it might be worth planting some seeds now. So in a year’s time you get it. In terms of the DM, with Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, you’ve got no excuse. And those platforms are for connecting people, especially if you feel a bit funny doing it on Facebook. Okay, Instagram and LinkedIn work well, specially LinkedIn. And also here’s the other thing as well, right? Even if you’re like, oh, but Jonno, I don’t I don’t have a specific job title to target people on LinkedIn. You know, how do I find people on on LinkedIn well hey you can do this. You can go in that Facebook group, right? See the members there and type their name into LinkedIn and then connect on LinkedIn. Right? Because if they don’t connect with your LinkedIn, they definitely don’t want it. So that way, you’re not being sleazy. And you know, adding random people on Facebook that don’t want to be added or or dm that way. There. You know, And you’re just building your, your LinkedIn profile with people that you know you want to have in there. And then you start the conversation in, in LinkedIn. So yeah, with those you’ve got, you got no excuse. They’re not to connect with different people with those platforms, they just make sure you follow the rules, of course. And if you want to speed that up, you know, collaborate with someone, but just make sure if you’re collaborating, make sure it’s a win, win, and make sure that you’ve built that relationship first. And either way, and I think any marketing strategy really comes down to how well you know, your audience, right? Because this is where I think this is I think the correlation here between even like a Google Ad, and like, and cold dming someone on LinkedIn, right? Either way, you need to know your audience. Because if you’re on Google ads, you need to know they’re searching. And if you don’t know that, you’re gone, it’s nothing, you can put all the money in the world on Google Ads, if you haven’t done if you don’t know your your target market and know what they’re searching, then you’re not going to get any traction. You know, same thing on LinkedIn, right orange to say on LinkedIn, if you don’t know how to target your ideal person, whether it’s via typing in the job title, whether it’s, you know, seeing Facebook groups, then adding him on LinkedIn, if you don’t know how, from that you need to know what Facebook groups people are in, that your ideal person is in if you don’t know what Facebook groups they’re in, are you gonna find them?

56:25

Exactly.

56:26

Same on Instagram, if you don’t know who they already follow? Or who, what hashtags they use, how are you going to find them, you know, and and, and he’s another little tip as well, though, I wouldn’t even say that, because you might think someone might look at that and be like, right, I’m gonna download Instagram, I’m gonna go on Facebook, I’m gonna do all these that can be overwhelming. What I would suggest is pick one, you know, yeah, right. You know, whether it’s Facebook, whether it’s Instagram, whether it’s LinkedIn, I’m just going to pick one of those. And I’m going to spend a month just mastering the strategy there. I’m going to do a course i’m going to watch some videos, read some blogs, I’m actually speak to my target people and say, Hey, who do you follow? What, what where do you check in, you know, I’m going to do all the research possible, I’m going to spend minimum a month probably even more, right? But mean, a minimum a month, just to see if it works, I guess you’d say, yeah, you know, and you might not even get any, any results from a month. But after a month, you can probably say, hey, yes, this is gonna work. If I get better at it on this, just, you know, it’s not for me or stuff for my followers, hey, let me go and try the next platform there. But either way, just pick one thing and master that one thing on the terms of how to use it and deliver. Because that’s the other thing, right? Like, yeah, you may be able to target your your perfect follower. But if you send them a bad dm, or if your Google Ad sucks, like, I’m gonna work, you know, so it’s from there. But either way, step one is like, how can I know my clients, my customers prospects so well, that I, then I can reverse engineer that process. And I think that’s, that’s the secret there.

57:58

Now, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, it’s, the more you know about someone, the better of a conversation you have, if you know what sports teams, they like, what their backgrounds been, it’s, it allows you just to throw little little words in there, that also grabs their attention and builds that relationship so much quicker, which ultimately leads to that sale. And I mean, I couldn’t agree with you more on that outreach. It’s it’s mean, outreach, just on a one to one outreach, but even most people, their ads, it’s by for me, buy for me, but you’ve never given any value, never introduce who you are as a brand. I mean, that’s, that’s what we do at the core, that’s what I absolutely love is how can we segment at such a granular level, so we know as much about them, and then we produce the creative that speaks to them, because you’re gonna have much more of an opportunity to one capture their attention, which is the name of the game right now. And once you have that attention, then it’s actually having a good offer that’s going to you know, resonate with them and, and get them down to that that purchase part of the funnel. I love the the your tips on the Instagram outreach and have a buddy that created something might want to check it out. It’s called Social Cycle.io. Essentially, that that’s what it does you put in hashtags or other pages to follow. And you can set up a whole automated sequence where it won’t do it for you, because the API’s and all that I mean, but it gives you a list of Hey, you’re supposed to go like a couple photos now leave a couple, but it just step by step and it’s it’s a cadence to reach out. But I think that’s a better way to approach it, at least, at least show them that you’re looking at them doing your due diligence, rather than every day hey, can you help me do this? Can you help me do this? It’s like most of you’re like, Nah, I mean, even a blind squirrel finds a nut. I mean, you’ll you’ll get a couple people that say yeah, but I mean, a majority of people are just gonna, they’re not gonna read it. And so I mean, that’s tons of tons of valuable advice. I mean, at the core, it comes down to the 49-51. Give, give, let the other person get 51 you get 49. I mean, it comes down to like Gary Vee preaches quite a bit. But no, that’s all great, great, great tips. I mean, I love all of it. I mean, you’re such a wealth of knowledge I mean, what you’re doing a ton, what do the next three to six months look like for you? What are you personally working on? for yourself and for your business?

1:00:09

Yes, good question. So two things. So long story short, fitness education on one, that’s my major course business. I want to, I want to get 100% hands off on that. So I want that running itself with a team without me even even being there. You know, if I can do that, I’ll be happy because it’s, it’s, I’m not gonna say it’s 100% passive income, but it’s pretty freakin close. I’ve got a manager team, and you know, keep an eye on them. And then and then if one person leaves, I’m gone. But you know, it’s, it’s pretty, it’s pretty passive. And that’s sort of step one. And then I’ve got this, this new business, the course creator community. So at the moment is just a Facebook group. And I’ve just put together a basic membership site, try going, I’ve got $20 a month cancel anytime, and you get a weekly webinar with me. But that’s even a good tip as well. Like, if you’re wanting to get in the course creator space, and you’ve got absolutely nothing, like any single person watching this could set up a membership site today with zero software. And your membership site is essentially Hey, meet me on Zoom every Wednesday at 7am 7am. And I’ll do a live class covering a different topic. And you can ask me any questions, you need zero content for that, you need a free Zoom account, you can just cut it off in 45 minutes if you want. And then you know, use it use a free platform like a thinking vehicle or the Think of the pre version free version or something like that. So you can just upload your your videos to there and there’s your membership site. So I think to put together a basic course creation thing is super easy like that. Anyway, getting off topic. How do I essentially want to do that new Facebook group, I’ve got it at about 1000 people, right? By fitness education online group that said about 13,000 people, what I want to do is get this course created community up to about 13,000 people as well. And then essentially repeat that. So okay, cool. You know, I’ve got this audience here. I don’t necessarily want to sell courses to that audience, I want to more affiliate, I want to be the guy that say, Hey, I got, you know, 10,000 people in this group more than the course graders that want to get better at course, creation, hey, this person’s a YouTube expert. Let me bring them in and, you know, do a webinar and sell their course at the end. And then I take a cut off that, because that way, they like, it saves me doing half the work basically, right? I put in the work on the marketing, I build the audience, I’ve got the eyeballs, you know, people come to me with their product, ideally, it’s a fair split. So it’s like, they don’t have the audience, but they’re good at what they do. Great, you know, coming, I got 10,000 people he can sell to, you know, I’ll save you years or dollars or whatever is there. And, you know, we do it that way. So that’s what I want there. And then essentially repeat you know, then I’ve got that Corporation community up to 10,000 people that’s running and self hiring team, start up a third business and just rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. So I’ve just got, you know, 4, 5, 10 different businesses, all bringing me cash flow, necessarily being there. Yeah,

1:03:07

no, I love it. And I mean, as we kind of wrap up, I want to be mindful of your time. I mean, we could go on, I mean, literally just the systems and process and automation could literally go on for another two hours. Like, I’d love to pick your brain there. I’d love to set up a part two, probably part three of this and touch base as you’re kind of growing because it’s, I love it. What’s the biggest piece of advice that you’d give people that are trying to create a course that they just don’t know where to begin?

1:03:33

Okay, so question with that, are we talking about creating a course, like the actual course creation process? Or, or running a successful online course business?

1:03:49

I think starting at, for example, it’s there’s a lot of people that are kinda where we’re at. I mean, as you’re bringing up ideas, I’m like, man, we’re creating content around digital marketing and all that we could probably create something around that, but how would I even get started?

1:04:03

Yes, awesome. Okay, cool. So, good question, because I’m the sort of guy that just get started with nothing, you know, Microsoft would document that today. But I think these days, this is how I this is the exact steps I will do to get started, if you want to create a course, but you haven’t created it yet. Step one, I would register for two bits of software. The first one is Thinkific, because there’s a free version for up to three courses. The second one is Newsela. There’s also a free version there as well. Obviously, with the free versions, you know, there’s some limitations or whatever. But we’re talking about signing off right now. So Thinkific and Newsela, the difference between the two Newsela like an all in one platform. So you can also set up funnels and email broadcasts and that sort of thing. Whereas Thinkific is pretty much the course hosting platform. But the reason why I recommend both of those is because they’re free anyway, so sign up before they make them not free. But also now you’ve got some stuff to compare to now you’re not going to use both, you’re just going to pick one I’ll probably start Thinkific, because it’s easier, right? But just have used in lumps in there. So probably should have even said easier. So just get get Thinkific, free version Thinkific there’s nothing to lose, why would you not get it? It’s good. Alright, step number two is in your content. Now many different ways to do it and solely depends what you do. Let me be the easiest way to explain this. The easiest way is simply just the strategy I said before it’s just simply do a weekly Zoom presentation, right? whatever it is you’re teaching, just set up your camera like we do here, I don’t have a fancy webcam, I use my my computer camera. If you want better, better video quality, I think that most phones are probably better than you probably know better than me about video. But most phones are good enough. Just make sure my tip there is the lighting, right? If you’ve got pretty much any, any decent web, any decent computer or any phone, as long as your lighting is good, the video is going to be good enough to teach whatever it is you’re going to teach right? audio is more important. But I don’t want complicated. I don’t think you need to get a specific, you know, microphone, but I think you need to be mindful of your audio. You know, if you’re if you’re recording, just make sure Hey, it’s a quiet space. There’s not kids running around or dogs barking Oh, police sirens in the background, right. But as long as you got those three things like you could, you know, it’s literally and I guess a few different ways to but even if it’s the most simple, let’s say you starting off, this is what I would do. I would sit down and I would say right, what am I going to teach? Cool. This is the topic I’m going to teach. Let’s just say you say there’s going to be four modules module one, this module chooses module threes, this module four is this, I’m going to go and register for Thinkific get a free account there. Every week at 7am. I’m just going to record a presentation, I’m going to get my computer out or my phone and a tripod, whatever it is going to go in a place where there’s decent line, you know, people can hear me, and I’m just going to record that topic for an hour. I’m going to do that four weeks in a row. There’s my course in four weeks. All right, I think the better version if you can get some people in there with you on the Zoom as well. That’s better. Not even for the money side of things if you can make a few dollars great. But if not just in terms of the validation side of things because they might have some questions, they might give some tips, you might realize that they can’t hear you or they can’t see you or whatever. So it just is a little bit better. But really it’s it’s that simple, right? It’s just you know, plan your plan your course content, get your computer get in a quiet place recorded on your computer uploaded on Thank you feel like that’s pretty much it. I love

1:07:47

it. I mean at the end of the day just go do just go try it go do it fail learn from it and build I absolutely love well Jono, this has been this has been great. I mean, I’ve learned a lot I you know I appreciate the the opportunity to be on your podcast down the road and I look forward to connecting there look forward to seeing if we can get a part two to going. But you know if there’s any anyone that wants your help, trying to create courses, whatever it may be, I mean how how can they find you?

1:08:13

best thing is to join my Facebook group, the Course Creator Community, Facebook group, just type that in, in Facebook and you’ll come up they’re super supportive group everyone’s supportive we all share tips and ideas not even just about me, right it’s it’s more about other people, I do a live there once a week, I stream my podcast live in there as well. So you can listen to the podcast, everyone’s supportive, everyone helps each other, we’ve got a strong no dickheads policy in that group. So if anyone you know, if you make a post and anyone criticize you or says you’re dumb or anything like that, you just removed straightaway. You know, the the person that criticize you don’t get a warning or anything, I just removed them. So you know, because of that you can post whatever you want. You don’t need to worry about getting criticized or anything like that. And I do have a freebie as well. So if you join that Facebook group, you get a copy of my free course, mini course how to launch your course without an email list or audience. So you can go in there and watch them. But also you can just watch what I do right join the Facebook group, get the opt in, go through my funnel see what I do even if you don’t buy my thing, just copy that funnel and you know,

1:09:19

sell somebody else so your customers

1:09:22

I love it. And Jono thank you so much. I mean I can’t wait to reconnect and I can’t wait to continue to watch your growth. Appreciate the time. awesome

1:09:31

See you Dustin. See you.

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