Don’t buy bells and whistles if all you really need is a bell.| RGR 081

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Overview:

Jason Turnquist and his partner started their web development company in 2009, building WordPress sites from a college dorm room. Today, Fyresite’s team of more than 20 specialists serves high-profile clients in Arizona with comprehensive app and web development. So what’s Jason’s best advice for your digital marketing? Don’t buy what you don’t need.

“What you develop needs to serve a purpose,” he says. “If an app doesn’t serve a purpose, stick with a website. You don’t need a web app if you don’t use a login system, and a mobile app needs to have value.” Jason’s bottom line: “You need to define what your product is solving.”

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Rise Grind Repeat Podcast
powered by EIC Agency

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Hosted by Dustin Trout
Produced by Andrei Gardiola

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Check out the full video episode at:

Youtube Channel – https://bit.ly/3dlwjnJ
Spotify – https://spoti.fi/2Mgfpe6
Apple Podcasts – https://apple.co/2MiQdUv

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Check out the full video episode on YouTube at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKMowFzAQ-g

For more information visit our website at https://eic.agency/

We are also on Instagram @EveryImpressionCounts

| Rise Grind Repeat 081 |

00:00

And so I constantly stay away from those little personality tests, right? Because the personality tests like that’s what they’re doing. They’re like, it looks fun, but they’re collecting your data. And there’s not necessarily like a plan of what they’re doing with it. But most likely, they’re taking in their grouping. And they might be running it through like machine learning and, and then like grouping you into these categories, and then building like ad groups based off of you know, what you picked.

00:36

On today’s episode of Rise, Grind, Repeat, we talked to Jason from Fyresite, him and his team are absolutely crushing it when it comes to website and app development. Let’s dive right in. Jason, thank you so much for joining us on an episode of Rise, Grind, Repeat, I’m excited about this, because we haven’t had another web developer app developer. And so before we start nerding out, I would love to hear a little bit about your history and how you got started as an entrepreneur.

01:03

Yeah, so I’m Jason turnquist, CEO and co founder of Fyresite we’re a local Phoenix app and web development firm. We’ve been at it since 2009, is when we started the business and it was basically right when the last recession hit. And so I was still in college, working like a lot what was called a loan modification job at the time, okay. And I’d taken a class at ASU that was geared towards, like web development, and then, you know, being so I’m from the San Francisco Bay Area originally, right? So I kind of have, like Silicon Valley feel, you know, my dad’s always worked in Silicon Valley. We had like an Apple computer from the very beginning. Yeah, right. And so I just always liked technology. And I didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do. I, when I went to ASU, originally, I went for aerospace engineering. So I always had like that engineering mindset. But I also have like a really good eye for design. And I think that’s where when I did web, it was kind of like this mix of like, engineering and design. And so we started the company, when I was still working in that loan modification place. And it was just kind of like I told my dad, I was building websites. And we were kind of like tinkering around with WordPress. This was right when WordPress started to get a lot more powerful. And people weren’t just using it for like a blogging platform. They were actually starting to build sites out of it. And so my business partner, he was building locksmith websites, their company, they were they’re doing it all out of WordPress. And so, you know, we kind of got connected and I was like, Well, why don’t we start doing this for other businesses? Right. And so I was talking to my dad about He’s like, well, I actually might have a client for you. Right. And so we ended up doing his website for him. extremely cheap. I mean, it was like a 40 page website for $2,000. Right, which, yeah, I mean, looking back, looking back at it, yeah, you’d never charge. Right. Unless you went like overseas, but. But it was a learning experience. And he’s still our client today. Oh, really? Yeah, that’s like a testament to our customers service, because we really care about our customers and what they’re doing business wise. So yeah, so we started, I was also doing like marketing, I was at like, a SEO Marketing Manager for like a hair salon up in Scottsdale. And then I just realized, I was like, You know what, I don’t want to do the loan modification thing anymore. So I quit that was just doing the marketing management for this salon. And on the side, I was trying to drum up business. Yeah. So I would, you know, talk to people tell them that we’re building websites and stuff like that, and everyone was interested. And so we kind of came up with like, a pricing model. And, and we started there. That’s cool. Yeah,

03:48

that’s cool. So I mean, what the heck salon and trying to drum up business. I mean, that that leap of faith, was it a little scary? or What was that? Like? Um,

04:00

it was definitely scary. But I kind of went into it. You know, I was 23 at the time. So I kind of went into it is like, well, I want to I’d rather be an entrepreneur than, you know, go and work for a large corporate company. And I don’t have kids. You know, it was kind of like that Elon Musk mentality where it’s like, I only need to make $1,000 a month, like in order to live how I’m living right now. Right. So I was always like, trying to live below my means. And so it. I mean, it was scary. But at the same time, it was also, I think, necessary to kind of like, push myself into that direction. And so you can’t let fear hold you back.

04:38

Yep. No, I couldn’t agree more. And so, I mean, mostly when they’re starting a business, it’s that pricing model. And it’s tough, especially like with websites, digital marketing, it’s not tangible. And it’s tough to, you know, put a price on as long as how much is a website and it’s always like, Well, what do you want it to do? Do you want to do this? Do you want it to do that? So what was that evolution like? And how long did it take before you guys were like that? We have our pricing model our business model nailed down and, and kind of hit the ground running?

05:05

I mean, it was it took us a long time to nail down because like you said, it’s a digital product is not tangible, you can’t necessarily put a price on time. So you kind of end up doing a website, building it. And then learning from the past experience of like, Okay, what went wrong, you start to find out that the biggest thing when pricing out a website is really ironing out everything that you’re going to do in that website, and not creating like an open contract. Because sometimes we would, we would do like these, I don’t want to say we were lazy, but we just didn’t know. And so we would kind of be, we just we didn’t know kind of how to itemize the contract in a way that the customer could understand. So then what ends up happening is they keep making requests and requests and requests. And it’s like, well, when does this end? Right? So then that was kind of the first step is figuring out okay, how do you how do you break down a website? Like how do you, you know, you have pages, you have optimization, SEO, on page, you have a blog, you have forms, you potentially have e commerce on it. So you kind of start to try to itemize those components out, and then see and then put values almost like time values is where really what we started to do. And then that way we could quantify what we were doing. And then that was also great internally, because then we know it’s like, okay, we have, you know, five page website with a form, we estimate based off our experience that it should take X amount of hours to build this website, right. And then we can tie that to like an hourly rate, and then we can come up with a pricing model that way. And so that’s what we started to do. Because everything we didn’t, we don’t do anything overseas, you know, so we were bringing contractors in, so our costs are gonna be a little bit higher. And so the margins, you know, you got to keep your margins or otherwise it’s not gonna be profitable, which ends up happening a lot in the early days, but it’s a learning experience.

07:03

Oh, yeah, no, it’s, uh, you know, I’ve been around for two years, and it’s been a lot. It’s kind of what we’re going through now is we do all these different things and is trying to productize services and put times to it and all that. And it’s starting to get clarity, and it’s easier to have those conversations. Was it difficult at first, was it? Did you ever feel like giving up at any point like, was it difficult on each website? Or just like, man, we’re not nailing this down or seeing profits or anything like that? I mean,

07:30

yes, it first. And it’s really because we weren’t quantifying what we were doing. We really didn’t, we really didn’t start doing better development until we started actually tracking our time on what we were doing. And that was a missing component for a very long time. We weren’t trying to like we’d go and build it, but we didn’t actually have a full understanding of how much time we were spending on it. And so that lack of data was costing us money at the time. And then over time, we started to implement tools of like, Okay, well, maybe we track our time on these different components. Maybe we track our time on the total projects. And then once we start to get that data, we can then start to calculate our profit margins. And then we can say, Okay, well, these are profitable. Why is that? Are we underselling ourselves? are we spending? Are we like over promising and under delivering, like, what’s the deal here? So it really gave us the opportunity to refine our, our pricing structure when we started tracking data internally.

08:27

Yeah, that’s funny, literally working on that as well right now. And I mean, with we’re gonna many different agencies, it’s always the biggest Achilles heels now getting people to actually enter their time, but it provides so much data that allows you to know if you’re profitable or not. And if you’re serving the client, well or not. The hardest thing, though, is getting people to actually enter their time. And I think time management is a huge, you know, issue or area of opportunity and managing your day a little bit better. And I think it’s a lot our big struggle with most people. So how did you guys actually get on the same page as a team and do it? I think

09:02

at first we used a system called Rescue Time. So it’ll track your, like, you can turn the timer on and off. All right. And so you can start to do that, but you never actually. It takes repetition for long, long periods of time. Like even today, we are constantly having to remind people update your time, update your time, it’s a lot easier now because we have project managers, you know, we have, we have directors that can like help facilitate that, make sure we even have like a Slack bot that will just kind of like hey, make sure you update your time. So that’s one thing is it’s consistency and continuous. Another kind of hack that we were doing is we would just kind of go like you can go through your Chrome history. And then you can start to understand Okay, like I worked on this site from this time to this time, roughly, I worked on this thing from this time to this time. When you’re smaller. It is so much harder though because you’re You’re constantly kind of switching between projects. Right? So you might work on this for 15 minutes, and then this for 30. And then jump back to this for 15. It gets a little bit easier when people have a little bit more of a dedication to what they’re doing specifically.

10:14

Yeah, how much? How much easier was it to operate the business, once everyone had that clarity of who’s doing what it,

10:22

you start to see the puzzle pieces fall into place, and then it starts to be feel like it’s a lot more efficient, and you’re not constantly kind of like drowning? Almost right? Because as an entrepreneur, you have so many different things that are going through your mind, right, and you’re constantly like thinking about sales, but you’re thinking about marketing, and you’re thinking about leads, and you’re thinking about development and design, and you know, so being able to, like pull all that and and quantify it. Yeah, it made our business so much more efficient.

10:54

Yeah. And obviously, it’s, it’s, you know, I could see it’s helped, I mean, just looking at some of the clients, you’ve worked with I mean it helped with State 48, amazing numbers before and after. So you guys have have definitely found a groove and you guys have been growing. How what are the different things you guys have done to help with that growth? I mean, to really pick up some traction and grow to where you guys are now? Is it? Is it spending more time on on marketing? Is that your internal processes? I mean, it is a little bit of everything?

11:21

I think it’s a combination of everything. Yeah, I mean, marketing is obviously extremely important. So all your on page SEO, your off page SEO, we were very adamant about building a reputation online from a very early Yeah, from the start, mainly because a lot of a lot of companies were unreliable, and you know, they, their customer would have a bad time. And then they get a one star review. And then they wouldn’t leave do anything about that one star review on Google. So they might have, they might actually have good customer service. But this one customer had bad service. And then therefore, their you know, their online reputation looks terrible. Yeah. For someone that’s going and looking. So we were from the very beginning, we were focused on Google My Business, or at the time, I think was called Google Locals. Yeah. through four different name changes, probably at least.

12:10

And so really, I mean, how big how important is the reputation management as as a local business? Because this is something that the whole Google My Business Page, that listing i think is is a huge area of opportunity for a lot of business owners. I think a lot of people ignore it. But has it been a pretty big piece in your guys’s growth 100%

12:29

I’ve always thought and looked at the data and Google My Business and the Google listings, they show up at the top of the search results in the three pack or the seven pack. And when people are going and they have different options to look at different businesses. What’s the first how are they going to compare the businesses? They’re going to compare it by reviews? Yeah, right. So making sure your online reputation, not just on one platform? Is is good, right? It’s like it’s making sure it’s good on Yelp. It’s good on Google My Business. Good on BBB good on. Yeah, I mean, there’s so many different directories nowadays, clutch is a big one for us, that we’ve started to use, which is more for like kind of the agencies, whether it be video production, or e commerce or app development.

13:16

Yeah, you guys been aggressive on Clutch? I get emails from them all the time. We’ve we have been very aggressive on Clutch. Yeah. And we’ve gotten some really good projects out of them. Really?

13:23

Yeah. Alright. Clutch is one. And then also another one that’s kind of come up recently that I would recommend any user listening is Upcity. It’s a good one. Yeah. Upcity is a good one. I think people are tired of Yelp. And so your start, like I was literally just seeing this post yesterday of like, like a mass exodus from Yelp, just because Yelp screws over every business that’s on it, right. Like you, you literally pay them to show up. But then they also hide all your reviews, right? So we have like, we have 60 or 55 reviews on Yelp. 38 of them don’t aren’t recommended. And there’s like 18 that show. Right. And I don’t I don’t know why they do that. I don’t know. And you’ve talked to them, though. They’re like, Oh, well, it’s the algorithm. Well, engineers wrote the algorithm. So like, why

14:10

what’s the methodology behind the algorithm? Exactly? Yeah. So I think

14:15

making sure that your, what your call your nap information, your name, address, phone number information is correct. Across all those systems is imperative to getting that Google Local to rank Because ultimately, it’s all about the Google My Business Page that getting that to rank, but everything else feeds into it.

14:34

Yeah. Yeah. No, good, good, good stuff. And, you know, you’ve worked on a lot of like I said, a lot of big businesses, websites and stuff like that. What’s been the most exciting project that you’ve gotten to work on and why? Oh, that’s a tough one.

14:48

We have a lot of different projects that we have really enjoyed. And, you know, we’ve moved into the app development space as well. So we do a lot of IoT apps, finance apps, healthcare apps. And I’ve always really enjoyed the I think the IoT side of things, I think we’ve been building an app and maintaining app for internet connected BBQ Green Mountain grills for a long time. Yeah, so we help them with a lot of their infrastructure, cloud infrastructure, iOS and Android apps. So that’s always been a fun one. You know, anything, e commerce, e commerce is very sales driven, right. So like, I just love seeing the success of like, bringing, or redesigning a customer’s e commerce website and seeing like, that growth is very exciting to me, even though it’s not money that I’m making personally like the fact that we were able to take those numbers and and either double them or increase them by a certain percentage, so that that person or that business is making more money is no,

15:49

yeah, that was fun, fun, know that you’ve done something and from that someone else’s, you know, the lamp, their life, their business, whatever it may be, and then can impact others because can allow them to hire more people, they can serve more customers. I mean, it’s, I mean, it’s very similar reason why we’re doing what we do. I love the data analytics. And at the end of the day, that’s why I love waking up to doing all this. And whenever you can see that, you know, week over week, month, over month, quarter over quarter, there’s there’s growth and good conversations. It’s just It’s fun. It’s a win win situation, right? Like

16:17

their business growth helps your business growth.

16:20

Exactly. You have a good point you guys have been doing. You know, I brought up web and you mentioned apps. You know, a lot of people are asking, you know, do I have a website? I built an app? I mean, you have progressive web apps. Now. I mean, what what, how should people or businesses think as they look to the future on what is it they need to develop? Is it everything or I think

16:40

it’s really going to depend on what your business does and what like, you don’t want to just build an app to build an app, right? Like the app needs to serve some kind of purpose. Otherwise, just stick with a website. And again, with web applications, even, like, you only really need a web application, if you have like a login system, right? If you have a login system where the user is going to do something, or you’re facilitating some kind of like gig between two people or something like that, that’s where that would come into play. You are starting to see some were even WordPress websites converted to mobile applications. But I think a mobile app really needs to have some kind of value. Like I’ve seen, I’ll see attorney apps that will have different information. So there there can be some customer loyalty behind it. Which is, you know, that’s a great use case of building a mobile application. But overall, you really have to define what is your product solving. And if it’s a website, a marketing website, then you may not need an app. But now if it’s an e commerce website, you might want an app because there’s a lot of cool like, you can then start to take advantage of like notifications inside of an application or kind of creating like a personalized experience for that user. So that is a good application of kind of converting your web presence to a mobile application, what you’re starting to see with Shopify sites and e commerce sites as well. Yeah,

18:11

no, that’s cool. I can definitely see the engineering coming out. What’s the end goal? Right, we’ll reverse engineer, whatever that is that you need, that’s gonna accomplish that goal. No, I agree. It is what what are you trying to accomplish? And it’s, it’s fun to kind of hear, you know, some ideas that are coming out as as COVID happen, and people trying to get their business digital. But again, I think it is down to that customer experience and delivering value, and what is the channel that you’re going to do that in. But I do think that if you can get someone to download an app and being there the just the push notifications alone and being able to communicate with someone, I think is such a such a huge win.

18:45

I there’s a lot of websites that they’ll have their their website that you can go and access, but then they’ll have a mobile app that you might use both right? Like there’s a there’s a Jeep website that I use it, it’s like, I can go in the browser, and I can view it that way. But then there’s also the mobile app, what is the convenience of doing the browser versus the mobile app? Well, if I’m on my phone, the mobile app is much easier to access. Right? I don’t have to go to Safari and have to type anything in I can just click the app and then see the categories I want to do. versus if I’m in front of a desktop computer. It’s easy, right? I mean, you’re you’re you can easily just pop into your address bar and go to whatever website you want.

19:28

Yep, no, it comes down to what’s less friction at the time, and less friction is always gonna win and I mean, as you mentioned, you love watching you know before and afters and watching an impact on on people’s business. I mean, what are you seeing whether it’s websites, apps, whatever it may be that that is helping conversion rates get better what what trends are you seeing that that you know, the user experience is needed and and you know what people should be mindful of to try and get more people to say when they land of the I want to take advantage of this offer or buy this person product.

20:00

Yeah, there’s, there are a number of different things that somebody can do. The I think the big thing that I like about just like mobile apps in general is the fact that we can, you can start to layer and understand the user a little bit more, right, because Facebook’s already changed, its chances are, it’s already on your phone, right. And then we can start to take advantage of some cool products such as like segment, or there’s another one that we use, I’m forgetting the name of it now. But you can start to segment your your users and understand like how they flow through the app or what they’re doing. And a lot of it all starts with design. Design is like the biggest key component that you could ever do. So part of our design process, when we build a website, or a mobile application, or an e commerce store, we always start with a design phase. So we don’t just choose a template and then throw everything in there, a lot of times we’ll like, we will design the whole page in what we call envision or sketch or some kind of collaboration design tool. And we’ll kind of iron it out exactly how we want, right. And then once we have that, then we can build it. And then we can go in and we can add something like hot jar and we can start to track button clicks, how people are moving about inside of the application that like the funnel process where people losing out on, where are they exiting the app at. So then you can start to understand and then and enhance or modify little key aspects of the website, you don’t necessarily need to completely redesign your website, maybe you just, you know, maybe your hero images or your the hero area is too large, maybe it needs to be condensed. Or maybe this button right here, if you look at it’s not being clicked very often, or maybe you have a big block of text that has no hyperlinks in it, but users keep clicking on words inside of the text. Right. So making sure that you know that ease of use is inside of either whether it’s a text, a button, the footer, the header, wherever it is. So you want to take advantage of these small little optimizations and, and even start to do AB testing. Like if you have the time and the budget for it. Like you can start to do things like Optimizely, like where it might change the headline for different users. And then you can start to understand Oh, this headline is going to convert, you know, with X percent more than than this headline.

22:21

Yeah, no, I love it all. That’s that’s music to my ears. I love the testing, love AB testing. Have you guys done or seen a whole lot when it comes to like personalization, where it’s it’s down to a CRM, someone lands on a page, it could say hello, and then the person’s first name at all, we’re starting to see more of that.

22:40

I think typically in the past, that was more of a like something that larger companies use because they have the budgets for it. But now we’re starting to see tools out there that are that make it a lot easier for just like small businesses in general.

22:54

I mean, are you seeing any impacts on that positive, negative? Is it is it based on trying to figure out is, is it worth the time to go through and map all that personalization out?

23:06

I think if you have a site that’s getting good traffic and your business is growing 100%, right, if you are kind of stale in in your website, and your traffic and your growth, there might be some other things you’d want to think about. But starting to add personalizations is 100%. You’re seeing all the large companies do it, you’re seeing smaller companies do it. It’s something that people like personalization, I think there was even a product that Amazon or not Amazon McDonald’s purchased did will basically allow and I don’t know if it’s going to use NFC, I’m not exactly sure how it’ll work. But it will basically it will customize the menu when you’re at the drive thru based off of like your interaction, I guess, with McDonald’s, or maybe how you order it. And I again, I don’t know the technology behind it, what’s actually like controlling that. But personalization, we are in the age of personalization, and things will get more personalized.

24:02

Yeah. And it’s interesting, though, because you have meaning Facebook, Google, they’re all, you know, testifying. It’s people talk about the one personalization, but then at the same time talk about you know, you guys are abusing my data. What is that that fine line? I mean, your personal opinion on that? I mean, should people be personalizing more, because in order to personalize, you got to collect data, but if people don’t want their data collected, you can’t personalize I mean, you know what I mean? What are your thoughts on that?

24:27

I mean, data is such a interesting topic, right? Because we’ve seen so much bad things happen with data. There’s a lot of bad actors, there’s a lot of people, you know, such a gray area that, you know, data in the hands of the wrong person, it can mean you can cause havoc, right. But I think there’s tools now that are allowing users to opt into these things where it’s not like, Hey, we’re just going to do this behind your back. It’s like, hey, do you want this optimized, personalized experience? Yes or no? Right. And if it’s Yes, he Like this is what’s happening in the background. So I think as long as there’s transparency with it, I think most users would agree that they would probably opt into it.

25:08

No, I completely agree, I think hit the nail on the head, I think it comes down to transparency. I think what leaves a bad taste is when people collect the data and use it without letting people know that, how they’re collecting it, how they’re gonna use it, and stuff like that. And so I think it comes down to the whole just transparency side of things, but I I do agree, I think everyone wants the personalization when it’s done. Right.

25:27

Yeah. And, I mean, we saw that with what was the company in the last election that Facebook? No, Cambridge Analytica? Oh, right, where, and so I constantly stay away from those little personality tests, right? Because the personality tests, like, that’s what they’re doing. They’re like, it looks fun, but they’re collecting your data. And there’s not necessarily like a plan of what they’re doing with it. But most likely, they’re taking in their grouping, and they might be running it through, like, machine learning, and, and then like, grouping you into these categories, and then building like ad groups based off of, you know, what you picked. And so I try to stay away from stuff like that.

26:06

Yeah, no, yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head there, too. It’s a people love sharing them and doing them. But there is a method behind the madness on that on on, what selections are we having, and that’s all it is collecting more data, then they’re gonna use it to try and push sales and stuff like that. But again, it’s stuff like that people probably leave a bad taste in their mouth. But if you’re transparent on why you’re collecting the data, and stuff like that, I think that’s where there’s gonna be a lot of a lot of opportunities. And getting kind of back to the design side of things. You know, whenever it comes to websites and apps, what are some tips that you have for people as they’re gonna go through the whole design process? You know, before someone jumps in, and it’s like, it’s, it feels it feels like it’s a big, big task, and it is, but what are some things that, you know, people should be mindful of?

26:50

Well, building a good website takes a lot of time. And it takes a lot of research. And it takes a lot of patience. And so usually, I always say, one of the first things that any user should do is like, find websites that you like, right? And try to maybe potentially model yours after one that you like, one that has, you know, traffic, not some random website, right. But a lot of these big companies, they spend a lot of money on UI, UI experience UI optimization. So trying to take advantage of what some of these larger companies are doing, and apply it to yours, you’re going to save a lot of time. So design is always the first and foremost thing they should be thought about. Yeah, right. The second thing is going to be like, I would say, optimization, right? What, where is your like, Where are your clientele, because if you look at our traffic on our website, we’re a lot more of like your b2b audience, which is going to be a lot more of your desktop, and laptop users, and not as much mobile. But if you’re more of a business to consumer, you’re going to see a lot more mobile sales, right. So if that’s the case, you should be optimizing your site for where you’re getting the most traffic, and who your end user is. So a retail e commerce site, you’d want to focus on mobile, right? Like you’d want the mobile experience to be locked down, instead of doing a desktop website that is responsive, right? responsive is a is a term that we use that where the website collapses as the screen size shrinks, right. And so this section might go from a three column down to a two column down to a one call. But if you don’t optimize that, that mobile site, you might get a desktop site that’s responsive for mobile, and it looks good on mobile, but it might not be getting the conversions you need based off of, you know, the screen size that you’re now on. So taking time to optimize for your end user. And, and Google Analytics is probably the biggest thing that we use the biggest tool that we use to track a lot of this data, and then we can start to make, you know, design opinions based off of who who’s actually looking at our website.

29:09

Yeah, you talk a lot about the optimization side. One thing that I hear a lot is, you know, I built a website, why do I need to pay to keep maintaining and all that? I mean, is that something that that you can debunk? Why should someone keep investing into their website after it’s done is developed and now it’s, it’s it’s live?

29:29

I mean, I look at it like any tangible product, a car, for example, right? You buy a car, you don’t not service it for the rest of its life, because then the engine blows up, right? Same thing is with a website, right? Like, the internet is constantly evolving. And so with that are the languages, the JavaScript, the libraries that go with it. And so you’re starting to see plugins inside of a website have to be updated more often because they’re constantly making changes and optimizations to it. So if you just like If you put your site there, and then you don’t do maintenance, like maintenance, like optimization could be a maintenance component. Yeah, right. And so I would just, if you’re going to get a site and just to have it and use it as a reference, Fine, whatever. But if you’re trying to grow your business and use the internet to do it, you need to take the time and put a budget together for maintenance and optimizations. Because otherwise you’re going to be, you know, your engine is going to be blown up, and your car’s not going to go anywhere. And then now, it’s like, you can’t take advantage of whatever current climate is happening.

30:34

Yeah, no, I love that analogy. I’ve never even thought of that, that comparison. I mean, to your points, you can buy a car, I mean, they’ll both run, but it’s a matter of how long it’ll run. If you never change the oil, you’re gonna have a motor blow in two years, and, and then it’s gonna be more expensive over time. So I think that’s the biggest thing is who just don’t want to rack up expenses. But it’s like, well, if you look at the actual long term cost of not maintaining, it’s actually more expensive to not maintain

30:59

it. And a website’s an investment into your business. It’s not, it’s not necessarily a cost. You can’t look at it like, Oh, it’s gonna cost me $500, like you got to look at is like, okay, I want to get more business. I’m trying to grow at X percent per year, what do I need to do to increase the traffic on my website? Maybe that’s content creation, maybe that’s video production? Maybe that’s adding pages to the website to represent different services that you have? Yeah. So you don’t want to just have your five page website, but then, you know, maybe offer all the services. But instead of having just one service page, maybe you break out that cert, like, your main service page into all your actual services? So you have, you know, let’s say you’re a plumbing company, right? Like, you might have new construction, plumbing, you might have, I don’t know, maintenance, plumbing, 24 Hour Emergency Plumbing, things like that.

31:54

Right. Yeah. And that helps tremendously with SEO. But I mean, it’s, it amazes me how I love how you phrased it, it’s an investment, not a cost. And it because it’s an investment, because it drives ROI. I always love to compare a website to like, a salesperson, I mean, it’s gonna be there to answer your prospects questions and get information, it’s going to drive sales, and it’s never going to call out sick, it’s not going to take vacation time. And your website’s gonna help you convert,

32:17

right? Like, people go to your website, and based off of what people judge a book by its cover, right? Like we we’ve known that, when they if they look at your website, and it, it’s maybe not up to par or has like, poor design, people can, I mean, they’re basically going to make an opinion in private with three to five seconds is what they say, typically. So you want to take that into account with your website. And I mean, your website is always there. 24/7, right, you have a user that’s on and midnight, and it also gets an epiphany that they want to start a business or do a video, what’s the first thing that they’re going to do, they’re going to go search in the search engine. So then optimizing your website so that you have those keywords on your website. And that’s SEO right. And SEO is an ongoing thing. It’s not. It’s not like, Hey, I can develop what we do a lot of on page SEO, right? So there’s a lot of things you can do on your website to help your SEO experience. But then there’s also the continual off page SEO, which is, you know what, you guys do a lot of time. So. But both are extremely important.

33:21

Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree. So I mean, you got to invest into getting it built. And then once it’s built, you have to invest to maintain it. I guess, to continue it, what are you seeing in terms of the future? And what are your thoughts on on how tech websites, apps and all that are going to be used by businesses and consumers, then in the future? I mean, any, any big epiphanies or,

33:41

I mean, I think overall, websites aren’t going to go away, right, you’re always going to have a website, apps are going to grow. Because you’re going to find ways to create, like, more customized experiences. When the app with the application, you’re starting to already see the introduction of like, augmented reality and apps and applications. Ecommerce is obviously already there. Health healthcare is a huge app space, it’s growing, because, you know, with the whole COVID thing, people couldn’t see their doctors. So the whole telehealth side of things. I mean, overall, the web isn’t gonna go anywhere. So I don’t know exactly. As far as trends go? I don’t know. That’s a good question. I think it’s gonna go on. I would love to give you an answer. I actually don’t know exactly other than more people are getting on the web. So therefore, like, the web is going to continue to grow.

34:35

Yeah. I think that there’s been an explosion and then it kind of plateaued the last couple years in terms of just technology evolving, but with COVID going on, and people needing to communicate digitally more. I think it’s put such a huge urgency on how businesses can incorporate digital more into their business model. And so I think, I think we don’t even know what is going to happen because I think a lot of people are changing business models to adopt tech. Knowledge and I think how technology is being used are going to be deployed in ways that we haven’t seen. And I think there’s gonna be a lot of cool innovation, it’s going to happen as we move forward, and people do get more digital 100%,

35:11

I think you’re already starting to see, I guess one trend that I have started to notice a lot more recently is the introduction of chat, right chat on a website was kind of there, and it’s where you’re starting to see it a lot more. So there’s that side of things. And then I think video, a lot of people underestimate the power of video on a website. And so that’s something that you’re going to start to see a lot more companies, you know, create, like these custom videos to put on their site video production in general, I think skyrocketing right now.

35:44

So yeah, no, I mean, being a video, it’s, it’s amazing. I mean, going back to Google Analytics, if you create a segment tracking people who watched the video and look at the conversion rate of that audience, and it’s, I mean, 2030 x stronger than people who don’t watch the video. And so that’s why we’re so bullish on on the video side, I think more people want it, I think less people are wanting to read and just want one the information spoon fed and spoon fed to them.

36:08

And I think it’s a it’s an addition, right? It’s a compliment to what you’re already doing. Right? So just putting a video up on YouTube and then linking it back or embedding it on your page now gets you like a backlink from YouTube, right? backlinks are an important part of any SEO strategy. Right. So we’ve seen that with a couple clients that we had helped before. And they they did all these videos, and we link that to their Google My Business Page, their Yellow Pages, right, and you can start to then use that as a compliment to helping these other assets.

36:40

Yeah, no, I I couldn’t agree more. And you guys have been working hard on growing you guys. I love what you guys are doing. I love all the stuff that you’re posting. What are you guys working on the next three to six months to really grow your business?

36:51

I think the biggest thing is we want to take advantage of the e commerce side of things like helping businesses either build a brand new website or optimize their current site. So we’re sure we’re actually Shopify certified now. We’ve been WordPress certified for 10 years, and we have a ton of experience with WordPress and WooCommerce. And then Adobe Experience manager we’ve kind of started tinkering around with that. So we’re really trying to I’m not I don’t want to have like one river. So part of that is like trying to create different rivers that all feed into the lake.

37:28

Yeah, like that. Different revenue lines.

37:30

Yeah. So there’s a couple I mean, SEO is a big thing that we’re focusing on right now. start tinkering a lot more with like Facebook ads, and then like ad optimization and and like AB testing with ads and like trying different colors, and like slightly different for like verbiage and then seeing if we get anything from that. So that’s one thing YouTube videos, something I wanted to get into a lot more, I think,

37:53

yeah, you guys doing walkthroughs? Like, before and afters and doing that and just video form? And we need to do that. That would be

38:01

Yeah, that’s something I think we totally need to do. Because, I mean, if you look at some of the sites that we take over, and then what we move them to is just like phenomenal. Yeah. And the conversion rate like it with, especially with it, because we’re so focused on design, and like making sure that it’s crafted in a way that is very appealing to the end user that’s on the website, but then it’s also going to help drive conversion. It’s just, we’d love seeing that. And I think if we could display that to other potential businesses that they say, hey, I need that, you know, and then they call us so I think you’re right, that’s that’s one thing that we’re also trying to get better at.

38:39

Did you guys already have the content? I mean, I was looking at the State 48 a case study that he has a website and it’s love that page. I love how in depth that case study is. It’s a massive page. Yeah, if you just did a video walking through in the methodology there, I bet you guys methodology and then paired with the performance to a little couple minute video on that and thing would go. That’s a really good idea.

39:00

I appreciate that. That’s cool. Yeah. Yeah, the case studies take a long time. But we actually got contacted by Bass Pro Shop because of a case study that we did for the Green Mountain grills. Yeah, the internet connected barbecue. They found us online because that case study

39:13

Yeah. Are you guys using them? Because it’s we’re going through that process. There’s a lot of you guys have done that we’re kind of going through that process now. Which is great to hear. But how are you guys using like case studies? Or just are they are people finding them on the website? Are you guys actively using them in in your outbound strategy? Or

39:28

I think that’s something we need to do better is with the outbound strategy, mainly, we did it more just for like ranking purposes. But I mean, you know, when you run a small business, there’s so many different things that you want to do and there’s not enough time in the day. So you end up like constantly thinking I need to do this and then a week goes by and it’s like so the case studies I think we just did them just to get out there and then try and like create conversion from people that might want more in depth content. Not so you know, not like, Hey, we build websites. Yeah, thing.

39:57

No, I agree. If you figure out how to make an app to make more time back in your day, I think he’d have a moneymaker

40:04

like a flux capacitor.

40:07

I love that. So for businesses that are that are going through the redesign process, I mean, what are the kind of wrap this up? What is the biggest piece of advice you’d have to someone that is thinking about taking that that leap on? Hey, we’ve invested a lot, but we want to redesign it, we want to be big, we want to be better. What are some pieces of advice you’d have for them?

40:27

The redesign, I mean, a couple things. Obviously, look at your users, like who’s using the website, use that data to then look at your content, right? How does your content read? Like what what does it say that’s going to be good for your on page SEO? And then just like your users in general, with the design, like, what is your design, and how does it flow? And ultimately, the goal is to grow and create more conversion, right. And the biggest thing with UI UX is like user interface design, which is what UI is for everyone listening creates the UX, which is your user experience, right? And then based off your user experience, that’s what’s going to help convert.

41:10

Gotcha. That’s actually eye opening. For me. I always I always get the two like interchange. I don’t really know the difference between the two. But I think how you just put it that’s a great way to differentiate the two.

41:19

Yeah, design. I like to think user experiences like design, with engineering applied.

41:26

I like it. Awesome. Well, Jason, really appreciate it and look forward to continuing to watch your your growth.

41:32

Awesome. Thank you.


Where To Find Jason Turnquist

Instagram: @fyresite

Website: www.arizonaentrepreneurs.com

LinkedIn: Fyre Site


Check out the previous episode of Rise Grind Repeat featuring CEO of GreenPal Bryan Clayton who turned his lawn mowing business into a $20 million marketplace. Watch the episode here!

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